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Apogee Buzz Fix
Apogee Buzz Fix
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Old 20th May 2018, 01:41 AM   #51
phase is offline phase  United States
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Join Date: Oct 2004
There may well be something loose on my nearly 50 year old original magnepan smg panels, but the buzz that I get is when something is amiss with my source I have found on more than one occasion.
Today I was playing around with a new sd card player, and swapped out a pair of capacitors that were contributing to the offending resonance. It occurs with female vocals.
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Old 17th October 2018, 05:35 PM   #52
slvbonn is offline slvbonn
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Many thanks John for your sharing, after so much years my left side Apogee Stage just started to buzz, got a bit depressed, for no replacement bass panels are available on market. Now from all your comments, I see a few more years listening enjoyment ahead. The stages do have something very special on its midrange, can be magical sometimes.

Best,

Sylvain
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Old 9th December 2018, 07:04 AM   #53
Sacr is offline Sacr
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Default Basics on fixing buzz

Hello
Just established my calipers signs have the dreaded buzz in the region 200-350Hz, using a tone generator today it was worst at 287 Hz.

Have read through the possible fixes, what is the latest?

Iím possibly going to try the silicone injection, but need more information on the basics.

1. How do I remove the front fascia/panel? so I can get to the guts out it.

2. Where exactly are people injecting the silcone, I understand itís the wooden clamps holding the bass foil, but a diagram or picture showing where about precisely would be great.
Thanks.
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Old 9th December 2018, 03:39 PM   #54
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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Friend gave me his Duetta Sig's, due to occasional buzzing.

Firstly, silicon treatment applied, years ago, I did it with my Stages. You have nothing to loose. IMO, just prevent future foam deteriorating, bearing in mind that new bass panel is almost impossible to replace, or is very expensive at authorized Apogee restorer.

Secondly I find the way to remove the buzz. Applied DSP from my digital xo at certain freq. On left panel there is buzz at 270Hz and on the second at 280Hz. On that places I put PEQ's and there is not buzz any more. Of course, you need to determine critical freq with measurements (REW). Look at the distortion graphic.

When listening the bass panels, correction is almost impossible to notice.

To take off front panel, you should first remove two screws on the bottom.
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Old 9th December 2018, 03:48 PM   #55
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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Just to add, buzz appear usually bellow 300Hz and that is area where room still dominates with sounds making modes. It is probably the reason that influence of external correction is not noticeable.
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Old 10th December 2018, 07:00 AM   #56
Sacr is offline Sacr
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Thankyou Damic for taking the trouble to reply.

Found the screws on the bottom, thanks. Take those out and the facia should just lift straight off? or is there any jiggling, prising to get it off, don't want to force anything that shouldn't be.

Filtering out the peak resonance is an interesting idea. Having done a slow frequency sweep of the whole speaker, there are quite a few dips and peaks at particular frequencies, especially near the 1000 Hz XO frequency.
The peak resonant frequency on mine is centered at ~ 287 Hz, but any sine wave played loud enough between 200-350 will get it buzzing.
Is there any filters that can go in the preamp to amp line that will selectively filter out a 10 Hz band?

Excuse my ignorance but what are/is PEQ's and REW?


I am still in need of a little more guidance on where exactly to inject the silicone..I understand its the wooden clamps holding onto the bass foil, but particulars on where exactly would help here.

There are claims that the silicone/oil mix will damage the wooden clamps? making an eventual bass foil replacement even more expensive.......is this hearsay/scare tactics that has been put out there from those with vested interests in the repair market?
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Old 10th December 2018, 07:36 AM   #57
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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If I understand you correctly, PEQ is parametric equalizer (you have to determine buzz center freq., bandwidth and gain, of course in minus). REW is great program for acoustical measurements. You can download it at:

Downloads | AV NIRVANA

On the REW, there is also ton generator, so you can find correct buzzing freq while listening and watching the distortion graphic. Buzz will match with max distortion. Than you should experiment a little, to see what amount of digital correction is needed. It is better to correct little as possible.

I have better success in applying silicon mix, with tiny artist brush, than a syringe. Somewhere on this forum there is my post about this. You apply the silicone only on foam, neat as possible.

Front panel is fixed with Velcro tapes, so you have to dig up first to disconnect and after push towards top side to remove.
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Old 11th December 2018, 07:55 PM   #58
Sacr is offline Sacr
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Great thanks Damic.
When I finally get around to doing this(maybe a month away) , I have to get it all done in one session.....only have a small window of opportunity to use our living room table to put the speakers on to do the repair, at present dont even have the space to have a look inside yet, so just need all the info when I'm ready to work on them

In regard to where the foam to be treated is?
The photo below is from the initial post in this thread, can you either annotate the photo or just confirm where the foam needs to be treated.
I can see a small strip of foam between the foil of the bass panel and the vertical wooden clamp in the photo below, so that foam along the entire length of the clamp/foil needs to be treated?

Are there other areas that need to be done, or should we start with that and see if that gets rid of the buzzing.

At the moment, there are only occasional vocalists that cause a problem with the buzzing, and full range music sounds fantastic, either the buzzing is drowned out or just not enough music energy around that frequency. If I continue to play them without the repair, will it damage the ribbons or is this unlikely.

Thanks


https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...x-p1010003-jpg
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Old 12th December 2018, 08:23 AM   #59
DAMIC is offline DAMIC  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacr View Post
.........

In regard to where the foam to be treated is?
The photo below is from the initial post in this thread, can you either annotate the photo or just confirm where the foam needs to be treated.
I can see a small strip of foam between the foil of the bass panel and the vertical wooden clamp in the photo below, so that foam along the entire length of the clamp/foil needs to be treated?
.....
url]https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/planars-and-exotics/342253d1365828320-apogee-buzz-fix-p1010003-jpg[/url]
Yes.

The treatment should be done with speaker in upright position, applying silicone only on foam. It is good to have second person for hold the speaker.

I know, the majority is suspicious about applying dsp correction for tame the buzz.

Just to show that there is no great influence on sound applying narrow PEQ correction bellow 300Hz as room dominates with sound.

https://i.imgur.com/4s9hnl3.jpg

Shown, is my current situation with correction on left bass panel with PEQ , central freq 270Hz, Q=12 (0,12 octave), gain -9dB and on the right panel 280Hz, Q=5 (0,288 octave), gain -5dB, what is enough to tame the buzz on both panels.

FYI, 200Hz to 400Hz represents the whole one octave.

On 292Hz you can see the room influence, big null, deep more than 20dB what is inaudible.

Measured both speakers at listening place, distance about 3,2m.
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Old 16th December 2018, 04:43 AM   #60
Sacr is offline Sacr
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ok, panel upright...Im assuming to not have the silicon stick to the foil?

Thanks.

Tricky question......have you applied the silicon treatment to the speakers you are using now......as I if it worked why are you having to filter out the buzz frequency?
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