Yes, the stages are very nice in the midrange (wish I would have kept mine...)
Now, as I've got the possibility to digital equalize them, I would tame their strong 50-60 Hz resonance. Oh, and I would siliconize them
, because you can remove the backplate, where the magnets are glued on, so it's easy doing.
Stages too, suffer from the rotting foam, only later, 'cause they are produced later in time.
Mine Duetta Signatures don't buzz... At least never at the volumes I play them. And I crank the volume often very high. The stage, they start to buzz, is for me unlistenable, not because the buzzing, but because the mrt ribbon starts to sound harsh and shrill.
For my duettas (before I applied silicone), the only reason of buzzing was, the membran vibrates against the mdf frame.
The alu on the kapton is glued very well on my speakers; if it would be loose on some places, I guess it would buzz too.
I don't understand the weather-stripe methode clearly, what about the backside?
There, you can't put this stripe.
The buzzing emanates from front- and backside, 'cause the foam is rotten on both sides.
For me, the backside-problem is only solveable by pouring liquid silicone and let it flow down. It creeps perfectly into the gap. Now with the silicone filling in the gaps, the foil has no chance to hit the wooden frame anymore.
Up to now, I do not see/ hear a negativ effect. And it's years ago, I applied the stuff...
They still play fine.
Now, as I've got the possibility to digital equalize them, I would tame their strong 50-60 Hz resonance. Oh, and I would siliconize them
, because you can remove the backplate, where the magnets are glued on, so it's easy doing.Stages too, suffer from the rotting foam, only later, 'cause they are produced later in time.
Mine Duetta Signatures don't buzz... At least never at the volumes I play them. And I crank the volume often very high. The stage, they start to buzz, is for me unlistenable, not because the buzzing, but because the mrt ribbon starts to sound harsh and shrill.
For my duettas (before I applied silicone), the only reason of buzzing was, the membran vibrates against the mdf frame.
The alu on the kapton is glued very well on my speakers; if it would be loose on some places, I guess it would buzz too.
I don't understand the weather-stripe methode clearly, what about the backside?
There, you can't put this stripe.
The buzzing emanates from front- and backside, 'cause the foam is rotten on both sides.
For me, the backside-problem is only solveable by pouring liquid silicone and let it flow down. It creeps perfectly into the gap. Now with the silicone filling in the gaps, the foil has no chance to hit the wooden frame anymore.
Up to now, I do not see/ hear a negativ effect. And it's years ago, I applied the stuff...
They still play fine.
Hi.
I recently bought my first ever pair of Apogee speakers. A pair of Stages with fairly new ribbons (both Bass and MT). I live in Denmark and Apogee speakers are rarely seen here. I think it is Graz ribbons and it was done somewhere in Germany. I contacted Graz and asked but he no longer uses the German partners. Apparently there were some conflict, and he couldn't confirm what was actually done. Anyway, the speakers seems to be in fine condition. At least they are now...
After a week or so I did notice some snerring sounds from the left speaker, which I first though came from the Bass membrane. However, it turned out to be from the large inductor coil in the crossover??? I put some standard white "wood glue" on it and this "killed" the snerring sound
The snerring sound could be mistaken for the dreaded Bass rattleing and it only happened playing really Bass heavy music at fairly high volume. Pressing hard on the coil stopped or minimized the snerring, but the glue seems to have fixed it totally.
Just though this information maybe could help others
Regards
MRoerup
I recently bought my first ever pair of Apogee speakers. A pair of Stages with fairly new ribbons (both Bass and MT). I live in Denmark and Apogee speakers are rarely seen here. I think it is Graz ribbons and it was done somewhere in Germany. I contacted Graz and asked but he no longer uses the German partners. Apparently there were some conflict, and he couldn't confirm what was actually done. Anyway, the speakers seems to be in fine condition. At least they are now...
After a week or so I did notice some snerring sounds from the left speaker, which I first though came from the Bass membrane. However, it turned out to be from the large inductor coil in the crossover??? I put some standard white "wood glue" on it and this "killed" the snerring sound
The snerring sound could be mistaken for the dreaded Bass rattleing and it only happened playing really Bass heavy music at fairly high volume. Pressing hard on the coil stopped or minimized the snerring, but the glue seems to have fixed it totally.
Just though this information maybe could help others
Regards
MRoerup
Noticed on friends Magnepan MG3.6R several dampers on bass and mid panels.
Any idea, whether something similar could be applied on Apogee's bass panels in order to reduce the buzz?
http://media.tas.zeitpress.com/articles/images/P3271265.jpg
http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/2/26701/Speaker_stand_037.jpg
Any idea, whether something similar could be applied on Apogee's bass panels in order to reduce the buzz?
http://media.tas.zeitpress.com/articles/images/P3271265.jpg
http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/2/26701/Speaker_stand_037.jpg
No, I'm afraid not. The only way to really solve the Apogee buzzing problem is with the silicone impregnation process.
Or, you can spend big money and have the speakers reworked by one of the Graz installer guys.
Dave.
Hi all, just wanted to check regarding phchang's post - reading the forums, it sounds like this kind of fix only works on bigger Apogee speakers, but not on the Stage speakers due to some special construction?
So is the only DIY solution for Stage is to impregnate the deteriorating foam with silicon mix?
I do understand that Graz solution is the only 'proper and real' fix, but it doesn't work for me distance and price-wise.
Amazing how this Graz guy is trying to push people away from DIY too - Your apogee is buzzing, and money is tight... - AudioWorld's StraightWire Forums
So is the only DIY solution for Stage is to impregnate the deteriorating foam with silicon mix?
I do understand that Graz solution is the only 'proper and real' fix, but it doesn't work for me distance and price-wise.
Amazing how this Graz guy is trying to push people away from DIY too - Your apogee is buzzing, and money is tight... - AudioWorld's StraightWire Forums
The silicone fix will work with any Apogee speakers that have rotting foam. It's really easy to get at the front-side foam, but more of a challenge to get at the back side foam. This is where the bent-tipped syringe and a tedious application effort is required.
That thread is from the original iteration of the Apogee forum, but Olaf's ("taotao" on this forum) topic arrived again on the new forum and after a short period of time was "accidentally" deleted. That was the last straw for me regarding any further interest in the Apogee forum. It was crystal clear at that time what Graz' agenda was. The rhetoric and the criticism of any DIY-based solution efforts was just silly.
Dave.
That thread is from the original iteration of the Apogee forum, but Olaf's ("taotao" on this forum) topic arrived again on the new forum and after a short period of time was "accidentally" deleted. That was the last straw for me regarding any further interest in the Apogee forum. It was crystal clear at that time what Graz' agenda was. The rhetoric and the criticism of any DIY-based solution efforts was just silly.
Dave.
Thank you for your response, Dave. I just got a pair of Stages with one buzzing bass panel (still have to sweep it to confirm, but apparently only at specific frequency). They also came with a spare bass panel (actually the whole 3rd speaker without the ribbon tweeter), which will be another option for me to revive these speakers if silicon fix fails.
I am a big fan of Magneplanar speakers (restored 3 pairs of MG-II, and still use one pair), but these speakers are very intriguing to me - they are half the size of Maggies
Yes indeed. On the Stages the perforated sheet that holds the magnets is mounted externally and can be removed....carefully.
On the other models the plate is mounted to the inside of the back panel. It's a more complicated overall structure and the magnet plate is not removable unless dismantling the woofer transducer portion of the speaker.
Dave.
On the other models the plate is mounted to the inside of the back panel. It's a more complicated overall structure and the magnet plate is not removable unless dismantling the woofer transducer portion of the speaker.
Dave.
There may well be something loose on my nearly 50 year old original magnepan smg panels, but the buzz that I get is when something is amiss with my source I have found on more than one occasion.
Today I was playing around with a new sd card player, and swapped out a pair of capacitors that were contributing to the offending resonance. It occurs with female vocals.
Today I was playing around with a new sd card player, and swapped out a pair of capacitors that were contributing to the offending resonance. It occurs with female vocals.
Many thanks John for your sharing, after so much years my left side Apogee Stage just started to buzz, got a bit depressed, for no replacement bass panels are available on market. Now from all your comments, I see a few more years listening enjoyment ahead. The stages do have something very special on its midrange, can be magical sometimes.
Best,
Sylvain
Best,
Sylvain
Basics on fixing buzz
Hello
Just established my calipers signs have the dreaded buzz in the region 200-350Hz, using a tone generator today it was worst at 287 Hz.
Have read through the possible fixes, what is the latest?
I’m possibly going to try the silicone injection, but need more information on the basics.
1. How do I remove the front fascia/panel? so I can get to the guts out it.
2. Where exactly are people injecting the silcone, I understand it’s the wooden clamps holding the bass foil, but a diagram or picture showing where about precisely would be great.
Thanks.
Hello
Just established my calipers signs have the dreaded buzz in the region 200-350Hz, using a tone generator today it was worst at 287 Hz.
Have read through the possible fixes, what is the latest?
I’m possibly going to try the silicone injection, but need more information on the basics.
1. How do I remove the front fascia/panel? so I can get to the guts out it.
2. Where exactly are people injecting the silcone, I understand it’s the wooden clamps holding the bass foil, but a diagram or picture showing where about precisely would be great.
Thanks.
Friend gave me his Duetta Sig's, due to occasional buzzing.
Firstly, silicon treatment applied, years ago, I did it with my Stages. You have nothing to loose. IMO, just prevent future foam deteriorating, bearing in mind that new bass panel is almost impossible to replace, or is very expensive at authorized Apogee restorer.
Secondly I find the way to remove the buzz. Applied DSP from my digital xo at certain freq. On left panel there is buzz at 270Hz and on the second at 280Hz. On that places I put PEQ's and there is not buzz any more. Of course, you need to determine critical freq with measurements (REW). Look at the distortion graphic.
When listening the bass panels, correction is almost impossible to notice.
To take off front panel, you should first remove two screws on the bottom.
Firstly, silicon treatment applied, years ago, I did it with my Stages. You have nothing to loose. IMO, just prevent future foam deteriorating, bearing in mind that new bass panel is almost impossible to replace, or is very expensive at authorized Apogee restorer.
Secondly I find the way to remove the buzz. Applied DSP from my digital xo at certain freq. On left panel there is buzz at 270Hz and on the second at 280Hz. On that places I put PEQ's and there is not buzz any more. Of course, you need to determine critical freq with measurements (REW). Look at the distortion graphic.
When listening the bass panels, correction is almost impossible to notice.
To take off front panel, you should first remove two screws on the bottom.
Thankyou Damic for taking the trouble to reply.
Found the screws on the bottom, thanks. Take those out and the facia should just lift straight off? or is there any jiggling, prising to get it off, don't want to force anything that shouldn't be.
Filtering out the peak resonance is an interesting idea. Having done a slow frequency sweep of the whole speaker, there are quite a few dips and peaks at particular frequencies, especially near the 1000 Hz XO frequency.
The peak resonant frequency on mine is centered at ~ 287 Hz, but any sine wave played loud enough between 200-350 will get it buzzing.
Is there any filters that can go in the preamp to amp line that will selectively filter out a 10 Hz band?
Excuse my ignorance but what are/is PEQ's and REW?
I am still in need of a little more guidance on where exactly to inject the silicone..I understand its the wooden clamps holding onto the bass foil, but particulars on where exactly would help here.
There are claims that the silicone/oil mix will damage the wooden clamps? making an eventual bass foil replacement even more expensive.......is this hearsay/scare tactics that has been put out there from those with vested interests in the repair market?
Found the screws on the bottom, thanks. Take those out and the facia should just lift straight off? or is there any jiggling, prising to get it off, don't want to force anything that shouldn't be.
Filtering out the peak resonance is an interesting idea. Having done a slow frequency sweep of the whole speaker, there are quite a few dips and peaks at particular frequencies, especially near the 1000 Hz XO frequency.
The peak resonant frequency on mine is centered at ~ 287 Hz, but any sine wave played loud enough between 200-350 will get it buzzing.
Is there any filters that can go in the preamp to amp line that will selectively filter out a 10 Hz band?
Excuse my ignorance but what are/is PEQ's and REW?
I am still in need of a little more guidance on where exactly to inject the silicone..I understand its the wooden clamps holding onto the bass foil, but particulars on where exactly would help here.
There are claims that the silicone/oil mix will damage the wooden clamps? making an eventual bass foil replacement even more expensive.......is this hearsay/scare tactics that has been put out there from those with vested interests in the repair market?
If I understand you correctly, PEQ is parametric equalizer (you have to determine buzz center freq., bandwidth and gain, of course in minus). REW is great program for acoustical measurements. You can download it at:
Downloads | AV NIRVANA
On the REW, there is also ton generator, so you can find correct buzzing freq while listening and watching the distortion graphic. Buzz will match with max distortion. Than you should experiment a little, to see what amount of digital correction is needed. It is better to correct little as possible.
I have better success in applying silicon mix, with tiny artist brush, than a syringe. Somewhere on this forum there is my post about this. You apply the silicone only on foam, neat as possible.
Front panel is fixed with Velcro tapes, so you have to dig up first to disconnect and after push towards top side to remove.
Downloads | AV NIRVANA
On the REW, there is also ton generator, so you can find correct buzzing freq while listening and watching the distortion graphic. Buzz will match with max distortion. Than you should experiment a little, to see what amount of digital correction is needed. It is better to correct little as possible.
I have better success in applying silicon mix, with tiny artist brush, than a syringe. Somewhere on this forum there is my post about this. You apply the silicone only on foam, neat as possible.
Front panel is fixed with Velcro tapes, so you have to dig up first to disconnect and after push towards top side to remove.
Great thanks Damic.
When I finally get around to doing this(maybe a month away) , I have to get it all done in one session.....only have a small window of opportunity to use our living room table to put the speakers on to do the repair, at present dont even have the space to have a look inside yet, so just need all the info when I'm ready to work on them
In regard to where the foam to be treated is?
The photo below is from the initial post in this thread, can you either annotate the photo or just confirm where the foam needs to be treated.
I can see a small strip of foam between the foil of the bass panel and the vertical wooden clamp in the photo below, so that foam along the entire length of the clamp/foil needs to be treated?
Are there other areas that need to be done, or should we start with that and see if that gets rid of the buzzing.
At the moment, there are only occasional vocalists that cause a problem with the buzzing, and full range music sounds fantastic, either the buzzing is drowned out or just not enough music energy around that frequency. If I continue to play them without the repair, will it damage the ribbons or is this unlikely.
Thanks
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/att...42253d1365828320-apogee-buzz-fix-p1010003-jpg
When I finally get around to doing this(maybe a month away) , I have to get it all done in one session.....only have a small window of opportunity to use our living room table to put the speakers on to do the repair, at present dont even have the space to have a look inside yet, so just need all the info when I'm ready to work on them
In regard to where the foam to be treated is?
The photo below is from the initial post in this thread, can you either annotate the photo or just confirm where the foam needs to be treated.
I can see a small strip of foam between the foil of the bass panel and the vertical wooden clamp in the photo below, so that foam along the entire length of the clamp/foil needs to be treated?
Are there other areas that need to be done, or should we start with that and see if that gets rid of the buzzing.
At the moment, there are only occasional vocalists that cause a problem with the buzzing, and full range music sounds fantastic, either the buzzing is drowned out or just not enough music energy around that frequency. If I continue to play them without the repair, will it damage the ribbons or is this unlikely.
Thanks
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/att...42253d1365828320-apogee-buzz-fix-p1010003-jpg
Yes.
The treatment should be done with speaker in upright position, applying silicone only on foam. It is good to have second person for hold the speaker.
I know, the majority is suspicious about applying dsp correction for tame the buzz.
Just to show that there is no great influence on sound applying narrow PEQ correction bellow 300Hz as room dominates with sound.
https://i.imgur.com/4s9hnl3.jpg
Shown, is my current situation with correction on left bass panel with PEQ , central freq 270Hz, Q=12 (0,12 octave), gain -9dB and on the right panel 280Hz, Q=5 (0,288 octave), gain -5dB, what is enough to tame the buzz on both panels.
FYI, 200Hz to 400Hz represents the whole one octave.
On 292Hz you can see the room influence, big null, deep more than 20dB what is inaudible.
Measured both speakers at listening place, distance about 3,2m.