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How to make a good transformer for ribbon tweeter?
How to make a good transformer for ribbon tweeter?
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Old 26th January 2018, 08:25 PM   #231
lowmass is online now lowmass  United States
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Thanks Fooey, very interesting wind.

My own foil sec transformers are similar BUT not exactly the same. On mine I am winding primarys in between each layer of secondary foil BUT I am not soldering the edges together to encapsulate as you are.

I wonder at audio frequency how much the encapsulation is doing??
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Old 27th January 2018, 11:44 AM   #232
alexberg is offline alexberg
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Proper HF transformer is a transmission line one, where secondary is a U-shaped piece of copper tubing, primary is wound inside of secondary and the core is a plurality of ring cores put on secondary.
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Old 29th January 2018, 02:30 AM   #233
fooeywuffle is offline fooeywuffle  United States
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I would say, the totally enclosed doesn't do much until the frequency is at upper part where stray inductance and not unity coupling of primary to secondary can cause loss. Need really good coupling at the low impedance of ribbon, so enclosing it gets rid of most stray since coupling is very close to perfect. Only resistance loss is left. Tests on them show 8 ohm at 20 watts, 2K to 50K. I have no way to test beyond that, and I can only hear up to 12k anyway. I don't have any reason to make and test any other transformers since these work perfectly. Made 4 of them, and at 70 years old, just don't have the time. Would rather make more amps. It is similar to transmission line one, just 4 of them in series. Could make one like the Balun shown, but sure would take a lot of high Mu toroid's.
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Old 16th September 2018, 10:59 AM   #234
Africa is offline Africa
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Originally Posted by lowmass View Post
In the end after months of listening tests we chose a laminated silicon iron C core.

Initially we were set on amorphous core under the presupposition that they must be better. We went months in test just using the amorphous. Then one day after much abuse there was a short in one of the amorphous transformers so we switched back to the silicon iron to finish test. Then a week or so later switched back to amorph. What was difficult to accept was that the sil iron core seemed to sound better. Wasnt sure what it was exactly. So that started about a 3 month back and forth war between 3 different cores, sil iron, amorph, and ferrite. This testing was done using 3 different ribbon foil thicknesses ranging from 4, 8,and 12 micron. Both foil only ribbons and laminated foil /plastic constructions.
What was consistently noticed was that initially there was mo measured or listening difference BUT that over time it always seemed that the simple silicon iron core was the easiest to listen to. Really could not put a finger on what it was and couldn't see any difference in freq response, CSD, distortion, But in extended listen it just always seemed that the sil iron core was better.

This is going to fly in the face of all sorts of technical and theoretical beliefs BUT I suspect there is more to overall good sound than just a assembly of technically superior parts.
Hi Lowmass,

Can you point me in the right direction with regards to buying the silicone laminated c cores?

Regards

Brian
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Old 16th September 2018, 04:47 PM   #235
JonasKarud is offline JonasKarud  Sweden
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Iv'e came to the same conclusion, after building and listening to ribbons for 4 years. The best sound came with 6 uM ribbon, 20mm wide and 1000mm length, using a toroidal core, from Velleman:

TOROIDAL TRANSFORMERS – ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS – Velleman – Wholesaler and developer of electronics

The transformer was stripped from its original windings, and rewound with 7 sec. turns, made from copper tape, and 70 prim. turns.
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Old 17th September 2018, 03:30 PM   #236
fooeywuffle is offline fooeywuffle  United States
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Sometimes I think old school simple transformers and amps sound better than all this extremely low distortion stuff.
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Old 18th September 2018, 12:34 AM   #237
lowmass is online now lowmass  United States
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Originally Posted by Africa View Post
Hi Lowmass,

Can you point me in the right direction with regards to buying the silicone laminated c cores?

Regards

Brian
try these guys for silicon/ iron transformer cores...

Cores & Transformer Components | Grain Oriented Silicon Steel Cores

If theres a problem with quantities just call them and explain what your doin and they may work with ya on small qty. They have been good to me in the past during prototype work.
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Old 18th September 2018, 12:36 AM   #238
lowmass is online now lowmass  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Africa View Post
Hi Lowmass,

Can you point me in the right direction with regards to buying the silicone laminated c cores?

Regards

Brian
try these guys for silicon/ iron transformer cores...

Cores & Transformer Components | Grain Oriented Silicon Steel Cores

If theres a problem with quantities just call them and explain what your doin and they may work with ya on small qty. They have been good to me in the past during prototype work.
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Old 18th September 2018, 06:39 AM   #239
Africa is offline Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowmass View Post
try these guys for silicon/ iron transformer cores...

Cores & Transformer Components | Grain Oriented Silicon Steel Cores

If theres a problem with quantities just call them and explain what your doin and they may work with ya on small qty. They have been good to me in the past during prototype work.

Thanks Lowmass.
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Old 19th September 2018, 12:31 PM   #240
lowmass is online now lowmass  United States
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BTW ALL...


I have tryed many many different winding configurations/ core types in ribbon transformer building. Including similar to those mentioned in this thred.

Conclusion...

radical winds do next to nothing at audio freq.s on ribbon drivers. I literally have piles of transformers with conventional and all these exotic winds and none of them are really any better than any other so long as they are each done well. AND even when done not so well there is no significant difference.
Beware the hype!!

the driving factor in high frequency extension is largely the following..

1- ribbon diaphragm mass
2- the length and/or the space between the secondary leads running from transformer to ribbon. Keep them short and/or close together
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