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Electrostats vs conventional drivers
Electrostats vs conventional drivers
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Old Yesterday, 07:17 PM   #181
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Electrostats vs conventional drivers
Quote:
Originally Posted by bolserst View Post
Canít remember if I had mentioned it before, but Edward Kellogg received a patent for the use of LC transmission line in 1934 to minimize amplifier dissipation when driving ESLs.
I don't know enough except to add a practice note.

When I adapted a direct-drive Sanders-like amp, I used a large group of resistors as the load. The ESL panels were wired parallel but they had barely any impact on the load the amp saw. As folks have stated, ESLs are actually very efficient by themselves. That made the amp very happy.

Of course, a Sanders amp is a machine to make big voltages while using today's familiar audio amp is quite different. But the notion of resistors in parallel with ESLs panels......

B.
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Old Yesterday, 07:18 PM   #182
kgrlee is offline kgrlee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
wouldn't it be nice to let the rest of us see what DBLT is all about
Double Blind Listening Test.

If I was a guru in my previous life, it was on using DBLTs to design speakers & other stuff.

But I've been a real beach bum for the last 2 decades so have problems buying AES papers too.
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Old Today, 01:15 AM   #183
kgrlee is offline kgrlee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Not that there is any indisputable way to define "dovetailing" of two fuzzy curves families (in 4 dimensions because you have to count freq), a fact that kgrlee seems to overlook.
I've been looking at "4 dimensions" for a very long time. I was instrumental in persuading John Wright to develop the "off-axis waterfall" which is a bell / whistle in Stereophile & and other hi-falutin reviews.

In another thread/forum (?) someone was dissing my suggestion that he should xover at a higher frequency with his selected units and posted an "off-axis waterfall" to show how good his speaker was. Actually it showed terrible off-axis behaviour which would have improved with a higher xover.

We now have much better tools .. some of which I helped develop.

But the knowledge and experience to interpret them is still thin on the ground.

John Atkinson has probably looked at more 'waterfalls' (KEFplots cos KEF invented them as their CDS) than any other person alive.
But in the early 80's I sat down with him over a couple of pints of Tetleys to explain what da wriggles meant in terms of speaker sound.

Quote:
But to someone who is a commercial partisan, sometimes only one leading patentable feature like matching dispersions at the crossover point might seem to matter.
I've been a real beach bum for the last 2 decades so have no commercial axe to grind. Today, I don't have to be politically correct either so I can call BS if I see it.

But to get back to 'matching directivity' .. there are 3 factors.
  • Response AND directivity of lower unit near xover and for at least 2 8ves on either side
  • Response AND directivity of high unit bla bla
  • Xover itself and the resulting acoustic response
It's the care over the whole implementation which gives good 'matching' and good Room Interface Profile.

I'm sorry if people thought I meant the directivity of the 2 units have to match EXACTLY at xover.

And there are those who believe brickwall xovers will give good sound. I was involved with early experiments to do just that with DSP at Essex U. Guess what they sound like.


If I keep harping on about the SOUND that's cos I still think making your product sound better helps you sell more. We were very successful with this strategy in da previous Millenium. Perhaps this is naive today as it is almost impossible to get to hear stuff properly in a real shop ... so people rely on 'reviews'.

One thing you find out VERY quickly if you do DBLTs is how many reviewers are deaf ... so there's no point designing stuff to suit their ears. Instead you tell them, loudly & clearly, that your stuff is hand-carved from solid Unobtainium by Virgins.
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Old Today, 01:46 AM   #184
kgrlee is offline kgrlee
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolserst View Post
Canít remember if I had mentioned it before, but Edward Kellogg received a patent for the use of LC transmission line in 1934 to minimize amplifier dissipation when driving ESLs. Iím sure Figure 3 looks mighty familiar as the same concept is used in the Quad ESL-63 and decedents. Note also the inverted configuration (for which FINAL was awarded patent US7054456 in 2006) is shown in Figure 1.
Thanks for this bolserst. Soon after that, Kellog left the horny handed fields of audio to create his cornflake empire.

Chester Rice went on to make further advances in ESLs though nothing as earth-shattering as his invention with Kellog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrlee
Da true ESL gurus will realise I'm being nearly as simplistic as bolserst. eg no mention of near field. I'm waiting for one to turn up on this thread.
My apologies to golfnut & bolserst who are of course true ESL gurus. I should've recognised this instantly and fallen on my knees in worship. Mea maxima culpa.

PS Do you guys have the facilities to wind the inductors for a Walker/Baxandall type transmission line ESL?
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