Hi
E. Fikier designed the ESL240, a 240 cm tall ESL, from floor to ceiling. He published this design in his book (only available in dutch, online).
This was the first ESL I heard and it was amazing, including bass handling and clarity. That was the point I started my ESL hobby.
E. Fikier moved from his apartment to a house which had slightly lower ceiling.
His esl240 didn't fit anymore. So that's obviously a disadvantage.
But if you've got the space and freedom there is no reason not to give it a try.
Hi Borat,
in germany we say " you hit several flys whit one shot" if you extend your ESL to the ceiling.
1. The longer a membrane is, it radiates like a cylindrical wave to lower frequencies. Thats on e of the major advantage of tall ESL.
2. This cylindrical radiation reduces reflexions to the bottom an ceiling significantly. Less reflexions mean less impact to the expereinced sound by the surrounding room.
3. As mentioned the frequency where cylindrical changes to unidirectional radiation depends on length of membrane. The longer the deeper. The result is that a wider frequency band suffers less from room impact.
4. Lets say you have a long ESL standing on the floor, waht you usually do, then the floor acts like a mirror and virtually increase the length of the membrane, extending cylindrical radiation to lower frequencies.
5. The same is true for the ceiling. If you touch the ceiling you mirror there too, extending the positive effect of cylindrical wave.
6. In addition you seperate the room volume behind the speaker from the front. This means backwave reflections will see a physical hurdle, when running to the front side. The better you seperate back from front radiation, the better the imaging.
7. There are additional advantages, but thats it so far. Acoustat did that as well and be ensured, they knew why !
Capaciti
in germany we say " you hit several flys whit one shot" if you extend your ESL to the ceiling.
1. The longer a membrane is, it radiates like a cylindrical wave to lower frequencies. Thats on e of the major advantage of tall ESL.
2. This cylindrical radiation reduces reflexions to the bottom an ceiling significantly. Less reflexions mean less impact to the expereinced sound by the surrounding room.
3. As mentioned the frequency where cylindrical changes to unidirectional radiation depends on length of membrane. The longer the deeper. The result is that a wider frequency band suffers less from room impact.
4. Lets say you have a long ESL standing on the floor, waht you usually do, then the floor acts like a mirror and virtually increase the length of the membrane, extending cylindrical radiation to lower frequencies.
5. The same is true for the ceiling. If you touch the ceiling you mirror there too, extending the positive effect of cylindrical wave.
6. In addition you seperate the room volume behind the speaker from the front. This means backwave reflections will see a physical hurdle, when running to the front side. The better you seperate back from front radiation, the better the imaging.
7. There are additional advantages, but thats it so far. Acoustat did that as well and be ensured, they knew why !
Capaciti
About 20 years ago I rebuild my Quad ESL57, putting the three membrane units on top of each other with the midrange/treble unit in the middle of a firm 240cm tall wooden frame. I developed a tension mechanism that makes solid contact to both floor and ceiling without leaving any marks (increases the WAF). I you have a pair of ESL57 I definitely recommend this vertical arrangement, it gives better definition, transient response and bass power. Strangely, almost all ESL designs, both commercial and diy, overlook the importance of a solid support for the membranes.
Other improvements to the ESL57 I recommend:
- Remove the protection frames (I have run mine without for over ten years without any problems).
- Change to metal film resistors and polypropylene capacitors of audio grade in the crossover filter.
Other improvements to the ESL57 I recommend:
- Remove the protection frames (I have run mine without for over ten years without any problems).
- Change to metal film resistors and polypropylene capacitors of audio grade in the crossover filter.
Hi,
theoretically there are more advantages as disadvantages by the sheer number count, but nothing comes free.
The question should rather be: "How much do the advantages weigh and how much the disadvantages".
You should discriminate between panels for hybrid-usage and those for fullrange usage.
It doesn´t make sense to increase the length of the panel more than is needed.
What is needed is a matter of the panel´s lower bandwidth limit in first case. If lets say a hybrid is intended to work from 500Hz on, it would be rather nonsense to build a room-high panel, since to insure a cylindrical wave shape over its complete working range less height is needed (~1m). Less height means less unused capacitance that stresses the amplifier.
What an improvement could be the increased height when at the same the drive demands rise considerably? ESLs, even more so fullrange ESLs are no easy load to an amplifier. If You need more membrane area, keep the height (as required by the lower bandwidth limit) and increase the width of the panel.
I disagree with Capaciti´s No. 6). Imaging does not improve, because that is simply a matter of the time lag of reflected sound to direct sound and the degree of diffusion of the reflected sound. Localisation improves, yes, but in the extreme case of only direct sound and no reflected sound at all, things don´t sound natural either.
The thin ESL membrane is no obstacle to sound waves, instead it is acoustically transparent (think of Quad´s dust covers). Aim should be to disperse the reflected sound so that it doesn´t travel throuh the membrane in best cast. If You need a barrier, build something solid.
jauu
Calvin
theoretically there are more advantages as disadvantages by the sheer number count, but nothing comes free.
The question should rather be: "How much do the advantages weigh and how much the disadvantages".
You should discriminate between panels for hybrid-usage and those for fullrange usage.
It doesn´t make sense to increase the length of the panel more than is needed.
What is needed is a matter of the panel´s lower bandwidth limit in first case. If lets say a hybrid is intended to work from 500Hz on, it would be rather nonsense to build a room-high panel, since to insure a cylindrical wave shape over its complete working range less height is needed (~1m). Less height means less unused capacitance that stresses the amplifier.
What an improvement could be the increased height when at the same the drive demands rise considerably? ESLs, even more so fullrange ESLs are no easy load to an amplifier. If You need more membrane area, keep the height (as required by the lower bandwidth limit) and increase the width of the panel.
I disagree with Capaciti´s No. 6). Imaging does not improve, because that is simply a matter of the time lag of reflected sound to direct sound and the degree of diffusion of the reflected sound. Localisation improves, yes, but in the extreme case of only direct sound and no reflected sound at all, things don´t sound natural either.
The thin ESL membrane is no obstacle to sound waves, instead it is acoustically transparent (think of Quad´s dust covers). Aim should be to disperse the reflected sound so that it doesn´t travel throuh the membrane in best cast. If You need a barrier, build something solid.
jauu
Calvin
At least two things happen when your speaker reaches from floor to ceiling and I mean all the way:
1. The frame supporting the membrane(s) is better fastened and will move/vibrate a lot less on transients. This results in better dynamics, more micro details and better low frequency response. (If you do not want your speakers to reach all the way up to the ceiling you could get the same result with a support to the back wall from the top part of the speaker.)
2. If you are lucky to have stone floor and/or ceiling and you can establish a solid mechanical contact (no spikes or vibration dampers) you can get amazing improvements in low frequency response, because you short-circuit away vibrations from the frame.
Put your effort here instead of fiddling with hybrid designs, they will at best be good compromises. If you do this right you do not need any sub-woofers.
As I sad before the importance of a solid frame solid supported in the room is for some reason overlooked in ESL designs when it is basic when you design a traditional dynamic loudspeaker. The box should be heavy and solid, when you play as loud as you can stand you should not be able to feel any vibrations wherever you touch the speaker-box with your fingertips. This is at least as important for ESL and MSL!
1. The frame supporting the membrane(s) is better fastened and will move/vibrate a lot less on transients. This results in better dynamics, more micro details and better low frequency response. (If you do not want your speakers to reach all the way up to the ceiling you could get the same result with a support to the back wall from the top part of the speaker.)
2. If you are lucky to have stone floor and/or ceiling and you can establish a solid mechanical contact (no spikes or vibration dampers) you can get amazing improvements in low frequency response, because you short-circuit away vibrations from the frame.
Put your effort here instead of fiddling with hybrid designs, they will at best be good compromises. If you do this right you do not need any sub-woofers.
As I sad before the importance of a solid frame solid supported in the room is for some reason overlooked in ESL designs when it is basic when you design a traditional dynamic loudspeaker. The box should be heavy and solid, when you play as loud as you can stand you should not be able to feel any vibrations wherever you touch the speaker-box with your fingertips. This is at least as important for ESL and MSL!
Hi,
"Put your effort here instead of fiddling with hybrid designs, they will at best be good compromises."
Well everybody after his fashion, but to put truth on the track again, a fullrange ESL is more compromised in important parameters than a decent hybrid, as are tonality, dynamics, drive requirements, size et al.
And while it is quite easy to build a reasonable good hybrid panel, it affords a lot of knowhow to build a decent fullrange ESL.
jauu
Calvin
"Put your effort here instead of fiddling with hybrid designs, they will at best be good compromises."
Well everybody after his fashion, but to put truth on the track again, a fullrange ESL is more compromised in important parameters than a decent hybrid, as are tonality, dynamics, drive requirements, size et al.
And while it is quite easy to build a reasonable good hybrid panel, it affords a lot of knowhow to build a decent fullrange ESL.
jauu
Calvin
In the AES Journal for October 2009 (Volume 57 number 10) New Zealand author David White describes a floor to ceiling ESL. Of particular interest is the horizontal directivity which is free of nulls (zeros) to 20kHz. He achieves this with a segmented stator, where the stator is divided into strips (31 of them) 10mm wide. The central strip is supplied with a full bandwidth signal and all others are subject to varying degrees of LP filtering by means of a transmission line. The strip capacitance forms the shunt elements and they are all interconnected by series R's causing a frequency dependant narrowing of the radiating area.
I dont think he has built the device, only simulated it. He makes no claims for originality but has obviously taken on board much of the literature of ESL luminaries including Baxandall and Walker.
Keith
I dont think he has built the device, only simulated it. He makes no claims for originality but has obviously taken on board much of the literature of ESL luminaries including Baxandall and Walker.
Keith
theoreticaly the width of the panel is the 1/4 wave of the lowest it can produce before back wave cancelation occurs (f3).the crossver freq on the clx is 360hz which coincedes with 25.75"(width)+14.69=40.44"/12=3.37',aprox speed of sound is 1150 ft/sec / 3.37ft=340.35 hz therfor the f3 shoud be 1/4 that at 85.311hz. does that make any since to the matter?
Calvin: I’m glad you are happy with your hybrids. Just want to elaborate my point of view a bit:
1. It is definitely easier to extend the lower end with a sub-woofer if flat down to 25Hz is all you want to accomplish. But luckily most ESL-designs are dipoles.
2. All loudspeaker designs are of cause full of compromises the question is where you want to put them and why. Based on what my ears have heard so far I do not believe in mixing dynamic speakers with ESL in the same speaker system.
Finally, it puzzles me if not all ESL-lovers want to explore the full potential of ESL-design, at least the easy diy parts.
1. It is definitely easier to extend the lower end with a sub-woofer if flat down to 25Hz is all you want to accomplish. But luckily most ESL-designs are dipoles.
2. All loudspeaker designs are of cause full of compromises the question is where you want to put them and why. Based on what my ears have heard so far I do not believe in mixing dynamic speakers with ESL in the same speaker system.
Finally, it puzzles me if not all ESL-lovers want to explore the full potential of ESL-design, at least the easy diy parts.
FYI
Just picked up a pair of Acoustat Model 3 (30 year old) and no kidding they have produced every single deep note of all the material I have thrown at them. 3 panels wide and no medallion transformers, running on a HarmonKardon PA-2400 high current amp with iPod as a source is stunning at times.
Just picked up a pair of Acoustat Model 3 (30 year old) and no kidding they have produced every single deep note of all the material I have thrown at them. 3 panels wide and no medallion transformers, running on a HarmonKardon PA-2400 high current amp with iPod as a source is stunning at times.
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