One of my ESL 63s has just developed a problem as follows:
When I switch it on, after a few seconds it crackles like an old fashioned radio warming up, then develops a regular (approx twice-per-second) clicking noise.
I've had two of the panels repaired several years ago and recall clearly the noise they made when they were going. It was much softer than this, a kind of background fizzing. I can't see any arcing when I remove the cloth.
Coincidentally or not, the channel on that side of my Quad 34 preamp has blown at the same time.
Also, perhaps coincidentally, we had one of the worst electrical storms in living memory last week, and this was the first time I had switched on the equipment since then.
I'd appreciate any tips on how to isolate the problem and if (hopefully) it's not one of the panels, how to go about fixing it. If it's a panel problem I know the route to go, but I've never taken on anything in the base of these speakers. Oh, and I have only rudimentary equipment - your basic multitester and a soldering gun, so if we can stay away from oscilloscopes and the like, that would be great.
Many thanks.
When I switch it on, after a few seconds it crackles like an old fashioned radio warming up, then develops a regular (approx twice-per-second) clicking noise.
I've had two of the panels repaired several years ago and recall clearly the noise they made when they were going. It was much softer than this, a kind of background fizzing. I can't see any arcing when I remove the cloth.
Coincidentally or not, the channel on that side of my Quad 34 preamp has blown at the same time.
Also, perhaps coincidentally, we had one of the worst electrical storms in living memory last week, and this was the first time I had switched on the equipment since then.
I'd appreciate any tips on how to isolate the problem and if (hopefully) it's not one of the panels, how to go about fixing it. If it's a panel problem I know the route to go, but I've never taken on anything in the base of these speakers. Oh, and I have only rudimentary equipment - your basic multitester and a soldering gun, so if we can stay away from oscilloscopes and the like, that would be great.
Many thanks.
Do you have another speaker you can use to verify the power amp is working properly (once the preamp is back in order)? It'd be worthwhile narrowing down the problem to one side or the other of the speaker wire. If the preamp only has one channel working, you could always change the wiring and use the other channel to drive the troubled power amp channel and/or speaker. It's a pretty modest start, but there's no point in gutting the wrong part of the signal chain.
Few
Few
The speaker problem isn't generated by the amp. Loud clicking noises happen whether or not the speaker wires are connected. Just firing up the speaker causes the initial crackling then regular clicking. I stripped down the speaker to bare panels to watch what happens and you can see the mylar of the top two panels vibrating to produce the noise. Simultaneously there's a burbling coming from the speaker base. I'd go straight to dismantling the panels, since this is a route I've been before and I recognize that most of the issues with these speakers stem from mylar deterioration. But the noise is nothing like what I've heard previously from panel breakdown.
When I put the preamp in for servicing I asked whether coincidental speaker and preamp problems could indicate a single cause, but I got nothing useful there.
When I put the preamp in for servicing I asked whether coincidental speaker and preamp problems could indicate a single cause, but I got nothing useful there.
Opened up the base, supplied power and observed. Regular ticking sound manifesting itself where the HT wire joins the second top panel. Now here's where my astounding ignorance comes in. There's a square board at right angles to the printed circuit board where the HT wire connects inside the base. I've arrowed it in the accompanying photo. Between the two yellow wires forming a loop in the photo is the glass bottom of what looks almost like a tiny valve, and it flashes in synch with the clicking noise in the speaker. Which is cause and which is effect, I've no idea but I'm sure it's all as plain as day to someone looking at this thread. Your indulgence and help would be endlessly appreciated. I have pics from other angles if this one doesn't do it.
Attachments
That's a neon bulb and it's function is to serve as a HT leakage indicator. You already know you have a leak (the ticking) but for a normal operating speaker it can be used as a health indicator. Normally it should blink perhaps once every ten seconds or so (depending on air humidity). Once a minute would be even nicer.
I did see it, Tosh, thanks. I've also found a full Quad ESL 63 service manual. Only problem is they're calling for equipment I don't have. If I can verify whether the leakage indicator is pointing to a leak at the panel or somewhere amongst the base components, at least I'll be 50% of the way there.
Hi,
I have repaired 2 els 63s. The problem was that the glue holding the circuit board had failed and the boards had curled inwards against the film.
To check you can cut the ht on both sides and make new connection for ht for the other panels. If the clicks dissapairs you probable have a bad panel.
New ones can be bought from Quad.
Just remember to let the charge away before you touch any ht wire.
Örjan
I have repaired 2 els 63s. The problem was that the glue holding the circuit board had failed and the boards had curled inwards against the film.
To check you can cut the ht on both sides and make new connection for ht for the other panels. If the clicks dissapairs you probable have a bad panel.
New ones can be bought from Quad.
Just remember to let the charge away before you touch any ht wire.
Örjan
So, I've discovered it's the second-top panel that's gone, and I'm about to set about fixing it. First task is to get the materials and mylar film seems to be the biggest challenge. So far I've found MT Audio in Europe who has all the bits and probably reasonable prices though still not cheap. I've also been in touch with Grafix Plastics in the States who sell a 25' roll of Dupont Dura Lar, .001" thickness (25 microns if my math is correct?) and 27" width, for $10 or so. So the only question I would have is: are Hostaphan mylar and Dupont Dura Lar just about the same thing?
go for the Hostaphan in three micron if you can get it and six if you cant. The stock 63 is a three micron diaphram. If you use DuPont use "C" grade Mylar. There are available sources of suitable film on line such as http://www.eraudio.com.au/ but I think that he has only six micron. Twenty five micron film is way too thick don't do that. If you are really just interested in rebuilding so you can enjoy your speakers there are two of the top rebuilders in North America who will rebuild your panels to better than stock for around $300.00 a panel. Give the actual amout of work involved this may sound like a lot of money but it is in fact very reasonable. If you have not done this kind of work before and do not have a weighted stretching jig to work with there is littel chance that you will be able rebuild on your own to equal a stock panel. If on the other hand it is the project itself that interests you then enjoy yourself and have fun learning to do this most valuable job.
Are you saying only one segment or portion of the whole ESL is not working? If so, perhaps it's a part in the delay ladder not working, and the film itself is alright?
Thanks for the feedback Tosh and Moray James.
Tosh, it's one of the four panels that's gone and although I've yet to take it all to pieces, it looks like a classic mylar tear or glue failure. When I fire up the speaker in the dark, there are clearly visible blue sparks roughly in the centre of the panel, accompanied by a crackling noise. We had all-time record temperatures here this summer, which may have been the last straw. Both speakers are about 30 years old and one has never been serviced.
Sorry MJ, I got my decimal point in the wrong place. One thousandth of an inch is 25 microns and I need 3 microns or .000118", which I have to get from Europe.
I've actually had two panels repaired by Stewart Penketh of Montreal and he was excellent to deal with. I agree, $300 for the work involved is not unreasonable. But I'm retired and the balance of availability between time and money has shifted considerably. Besides, this is an interesting challenge, I'm making do with my old KEFs while the ESL 63s are in dock and the effort required to get them going again will make it all the sweeter when they're back.
Incidentally, I wrote to Stewart but never heard back, so I'm not sure he's still in the business.
Tosh, it's one of the four panels that's gone and although I've yet to take it all to pieces, it looks like a classic mylar tear or glue failure. When I fire up the speaker in the dark, there are clearly visible blue sparks roughly in the centre of the panel, accompanied by a crackling noise. We had all-time record temperatures here this summer, which may have been the last straw. Both speakers are about 30 years old and one has never been serviced.
Sorry MJ, I got my decimal point in the wrong place. One thousandth of an inch is 25 microns and I need 3 microns or .000118", which I have to get from Europe.
I've actually had two panels repaired by Stewart Penketh of Montreal and he was excellent to deal with. I agree, $300 for the work involved is not unreasonable. But I'm retired and the balance of availability between time and money has shifted considerably. Besides, this is an interesting challenge, I'm making do with my old KEFs while the ESL 63s are in dock and the effort required to get them going again will make it all the sweeter when they're back.
Incidentally, I wrote to Stewart but never heard back, so I'm not sure he's still in the business.
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ESL 63 DIY repairs
howes hound,
Sounds like you are going to try your hand at DIY repairs.
Unless you have separate sources for the essential materials; film, glue, conductive film and tape, etc., can highly recommend the complete panel repair kit from ER Audio in Australia.
I have repaired two pairs of ESL 63's using their kit, and had excellent results.
Despite their film and conductive coating not having the exact specs as what Quad used to manufacture the speakers, the end results are excellent, and will surely be much better than what you hear now through your fatigued 63's.
Good luck with your quest.
Cheers
howes hound,
Sounds like you are going to try your hand at DIY repairs.
Unless you have separate sources for the essential materials; film, glue, conductive film and tape, etc., can highly recommend the complete panel repair kit from ER Audio in Australia.
I have repaired two pairs of ESL 63's using their kit, and had excellent results.
Despite their film and conductive coating not having the exact specs as what Quad used to manufacture the speakers, the end results are excellent, and will surely be much better than what you hear now through your fatigued 63's.
Good luck with your quest.
Cheers
I have a problem with the ESL-63 (on only one of the speakers). There is continuous scratchy/static extraneous noise after it is plugged in and turned on (but the speaker still sound good otherwise). But there is no noise when the power is unplugged (as is normal for the 63, the sound coming from my CD player, via the RCA cables, continues for a while, even after power has been unplugged, but there is no more extraneous noise once the power is unplugged). The orange neon light is flashing quickly, which would indicate a bad panel (?)
I have taken the fabric cover down, and shined a torch on the inside, and the only unusual thing is a black 1cm in diameter on the stator (I assume the bronze mesh with round holes is the stator). It looks like a burn mark, and I can see it on the front and back of the speaker. Can I keep using the speaker for the time being without making it worse? Can anyone please tell me what is going on, and what I should do about it?
I have taken the fabric cover down, and shined a torch on the inside, and the only unusual thing is a black 1cm in diameter on the stator (I assume the bronze mesh with round holes is the stator). It looks like a burn mark, and I can see it on the front and back of the speaker. Can I keep using the speaker for the time being without making it worse? Can anyone please tell me what is going on, and what I should do about it?
Certainly sounds like you have a bad panel. Can you take a picture of this burn mark? That's unusual for the panels to have blackened burn marks. the sound you are describing certainly sounds like a bad panel. You can run the speaker without damaging the other panels. But it's not properly charging the other panels either, so the speaker may be low in output and the clamp circuit may be triggered by the arcing.
Sheldon
quadesl.com
Sheldon
quadesl.com
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