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Anyone making Apogee bass panels ?
Anyone making Apogee bass panels ?
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:20 PM   #121
DeltaStar is offline DeltaStar  Canada
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I have my Scins eq'd from 150 hz down flat to 20hz,, and yes they are bass heavy. But once eq'd thier they will rival the big Infinitys that I own.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:27 PM   #122
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Yes with just a bit of damping on that 15db bass rise ( I like around 12db) the Apogee bass can be truly great.
In fact I would bet that most who have these speakers have never heard what they are capable of
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:33 PM   #123
DeltaStar is offline DeltaStar  Canada
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As good as the irs5 were, I'd never trade my scin mrt, for the emims and emits
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:58 PM   #124
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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The big floppy mid ribbon has charms I dont think a bunch of small planer mids and tweets can do.

Free swinging ribbons have the advantage of very very low resonant freq. This pays dividend in the lower mids that im not sure can be achieved in a small planer diaphragm.

As well the Scins have tru foil only ribbons. No backing material and adhesive.

Subjectively I feel the foil only ribbons can do micro dynamics better than the laminated versions BUT you have to tailor everything just right to avoid resonant issues.
That said the laminated versions can be perhaps subjectively "sweeter" but can sometimes sound slightly veild compared to FOs.

I cannot at all make this case through measurment and im not at all sure one is "technically " better, BUT after building and side by side compare of probably 1000 mrts of both, this is where my thoughts land.

In fact my own ribbon work has been in part to find a happy medium between the two.

Last edited by lowmass; 13th November 2019 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:51 PM   #125
AVWERK is offline AVWERK  United States
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On the Scintilla mid there is no foam bridge any where along the whole length ?
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Old 13th November 2019, 09:14 PM   #126
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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I dont believe so

It also has a unique 4 ribbon tweeter in same mag gap as mid

the wide 2" ribbons tend to be more stable than the 1" versions

Last edited by lowmass; 13th November 2019 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 13th November 2019, 09:59 PM   #127
DeltaStar is offline DeltaStar  Canada
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Yes their free hanging ribbons, doesn't matter how loud you play music, they never twitch or move, extremely stable. The Diva's are a different animal, like the duetta sigs, they twitch and bounce around when it gets loud,, replace Diva mids yearly, or sooner,,, the tweeter ribbon never give's a problem,,,been thinking about going to a foil hanging in the midrange like the scintilla, it would be 1.125 wide for the gap,,BUT would be just about a dead short.
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Old 14th November 2019, 12:14 AM   #128
AVWERK is offline AVWERK  United States
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Those pulsing tweeters were unique and wonder if there were frequency cancellations
since they were right in front and along the edges of the mid foil.
I never heard of anything amiss on measurements or sound quality though

This was the only model constructed this way. Probably too labor intensive And costly for continued production.


Regards
David
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Old 14th November 2019, 12:24 AM   #129
DeltaStar is offline DeltaStar  Canada
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I've never heard a Apogee in the mid up sound better than a Scintilla, for that matter very few other speakers,, and I have quite a few different systems here. 13 in total.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:46 PM   #130
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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You can certainly convert the Diva to a foil only mid ribbon

BUT I caution you here, I believe the Diva crosses over from mid to tweet at around 9 khz and the Diva, laminated/ small corrugation ribbon, is well behaved enough to cross that high.
If you make a big FO for the Diva mid with corrugations you may find it difficult to get a smooth response up to 9K. There will likely be a strong wiggle and a bunch of energy storage somewhere in there. My guess, depending on size of corrugations, you will see trouble between 3 and 7 khz. Close mic waterfall plots will show it. The ear will hear it as edgy brightness. And traps dont filter the sharp peaks out all that well. Traps better suited to smooth long symmetrical rise and falls

The Sins get away with this I think because they cross over down around 3 khz and the wider mid ribbon is more directional in dispersion


BTW a word on Apogee and other similar speakers sound. Ive had Apogee along side many many protos of other similar designs on deck for months just playing with exact levels, crossover points, rakes, etc.

I can say this, this type of speaker can go from good to truly top class with very small changes in the mentioned areas. Its startling at times how convincing even crude setups can sound when everything is dialed in. My suspicion is many have not heard what these this are capable of simply because every room/setup is so different.

Ive had Diva mid tweeter copies where the vocals can be utterly convincing IF everything is right . Even 1/2 db changes in level or rake of the mids and up can bring the magic

Last edited by lowmass; 14th November 2019 at 01:57 PM.
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