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PC Based Computer music servers, crossovers, and equalization

Use Windows Computer as DSP with fir-filter, and as low latency as possible
Use Windows Computer as DSP with fir-filter, and as low latency as possible
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Old 21st September 2019, 02:49 PM   #1
Victrose is offline Victrose
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Default Use Windows Computer as DSP with fir-filter, and as low latency as possible

Hi!

I have tried for a while now to run audio from my onkyo reciever used for input of all devices in my home cinema, and get it from pre out front onkyo and into my focusrite scarlett 18i20 3 gen soundcard, and then via usb to my computer. There i have generated a fir filter, to perfectly seperate audio from source to four speakers, two horns and two subwoofers, for left and right.

So i want my audio to come from my onkyo into focusrite, and then into the pc vis usb, thru a convolver with a fir filter, and then through output 1-4 on focusrite to the two amplifiers running the four speakers.

I have tried jriver, but the wdm driver wouldnt seem to work. Also tried listen to this device, but the delat is about three seconds, which is way to much.

How do i fix this as easy and with as low latency as possible. I have read multiple treads here, with vsthost and more, but cant manage to make this work either.

I am relativly new to this, so i really need help to make this work.

All replies are highly appreciated.
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Old 7th October 2019, 03:42 PM   #2
iamjackalope is offline iamjackalope  United States
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If I'm reading this right, I'm not sure that I am but even if I'm not these programs are worth grabing anyways so you can't lose. First grab the APO equalizer at:

Equalizer APO download | SourceForge.net

Then download the Peace GUI for said Equalizer at:

Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO download | SourceForge.net

Install both pieces of software in the same order. This becomes a system wide Equalizer that can be interfaced with REW. It can be used to create filters for active setups, biamping and host of other stuff. It will process each channel seperately so it can be used as DSP in an active set up. Best part is the software is free, open source and works well. Not buggy at all.

Then if you need some help routing the signals through your computer you can use this:

VB-Audio VoiceMeeter

vb-audio has a really good website with quite a few different audio and media programs available with instructional videos and tutorials. You can download and install the programs for free and if you find them useful then they would appreciate it if you send them a small donation. The programs work either way. Again these are well written programs that won't throw your computer into a conniption fit.

Hope this helps.
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Old 8th October 2019, 07:06 AM   #3
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Use Windows Computer as DSP with fir-filter, and as low latency as possible
Just FYI, I've used a number of different solutions for a couple of years, Eq APO, VM banana etc all work very well but can be a bit "fiddly", and especially so when M$ throw in a couple of very meddling windows updates on uneven intervals...
The above suggestions from iamjackalope is the best combination for fidelity, but it is easily possible to break functionality in several different ways.
If you use Eq APO a further improvement would be to also use rePhase with wav export filters IMO.

The solution I thought was actually best for signal routing, was using a simple vst host like the one Hermann Seib made, his site seems to be down, but you can find it here as well:
VSTHost (64-bit) - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com

In combination with Engineers Filter as well as Easy EQ from Robin Schmidt:
RS-MET

VSTHost + the RS plugins is simpler to set up, and provide certain functions you just do not get with the EqAPO + rePhase combo. Either way, you should do several iterations of measurements in different locations between each signal correction/adjustment.

If you're after lowest possible latency and have a very good signal chain it is possible to get around 18-22ms delay in "best case" scenario (using a proper sound card, not HDMI).
However, HDMI is a bit "hit and miss" in regards to audio delay/syncing. Can work allright if you're also using the same HDMI for picture/video playback, but if you want higher quality and FPS through the use of a different interface then syncing audio/video for fast paced gaming = absolute crap, signal delay can and will more or less constantly vary from 11ms to 60ms.
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Old 8th October 2019, 09:50 AM   #4
iamjackalope is offline iamjackalope  United States
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The VST host solution works well especially with AISO drivers.

Victrose are you using this as a full AV setup or is it strictly audio? If it is just for 2 channel audio and if all of your music is in digital format (no vinyl) like my set up, you can do away with everything but your PC and the amps. It makes things much easier. Of course if you are using your getup as audio and video then that might not be the best way to go.

If it is latency that you are having a problem with then you might want to consider AISO drivers as they are designed around low latency being primary.
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Old 8th October 2019, 01:41 PM   #5
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Use Windows Computer as DSP with fir-filter, and as low latency as possible
I would just like to add, that for me personally, high quality sound + low latency processing was so important that I eventually ended up only using the computer as source, with external dsp filters. Including internal+external latency, everything included, I should be just under 10ms total delay.
6ms (soundcard buffer)+1.56ms(external dsp processing)+ a couple ms here and there inbetween for various reasons.

On the other hand:
Just using internal loop to eqapo you can easily get over 20ms before you even add filters, if you put some effort in, you can make really good filters that takes another 11-12ms, but many end up around 20ms for some more advanced processing. If you're really good and know exactly which compromises to go for and where, you can get a nicely done loopback+filters setup under 25ms, but it takes some effort to get it 100% glitch free, some rare glitches/artifacts may appear during playback.
I also discovered that I am incompatible with the eqapo gui, the config.txt was much more intuitive
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Old 12th October 2019, 09:41 AM   #6
Victrose is offline Victrose
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Hi, i am using it for full video and audio. Last night i tried streaming from video from the onkyo reciever, and then audio out from pre outs front to input on focusrite. Routing it through jriver caused extreme delay and odd noises.

I will try your solutions today, and hope that it will work for my setup :-)
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Old 13th October 2019, 07:05 AM   #7
bohdan1232000 is offline bohdan1232000  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victrose View Post
Hi!

I have tried for a while now to run audio from my onkyo reciever used for input of all devices in my home cinema, and get it from pre out front onkyo and into my focusrite scarlett 18i20 3 gen soundcard, and then via usb to my computer. There i have generated a fir filter, to perfectly seperate audio from source to four speakers, two horns and two subwoofers, for left and right.

So i want my audio to come from my onkyo into focusrite, and then into the pc vis usb, thru a convolver with a fir filter, and then through output 1-4 on focusrite to the two amplifiers running the four speakers.

I have tried jriver, but the wdm driver wouldnt seem to work. Also tried listen to this device, but the delat is about three seconds, which is way to much.

How do i fix this as easy and with as low latency as possible. I have read multiple treads here, with vsthost and more, but cant manage to make this work either.

I am relativly new to this, so i really need help to make this work.

All replies are highly appreciated.





Hi,


Just replacing a passive crossover with an active, PC-based crossover, completely ignores the processing power of contemporary PC. Nowdays, you can have a crossover, driver equalizer, phase linearizer and room equalizer in one DSP solution.

Itís OK, if this is only your starting point on an interesting journey towards a PC-based DSP processor. Inevitably, youíll learn, that PC can do so much more than a simple crossover.

Please visit http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/ where you can learn about DSP-on-a-PC and explore several examples of implementing a PC as a stereo and up to 7.2 DSP processor.

Best Regards,
Bohdan
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