AK4499 chips are a little under $100 each (in small quantities). They use one Jung regulator for each channel on the evaluation boards. (ES9038Q2M chips around closer to $15 each in small quantities, by way of comparison.) How much would you be willing to pay for an AK4499 dac from Ian, considering it won't be cheap to make?
Not if there is only a market for 10/30 boards with all the R+D time for Ian.
I would guess at a weeks work to design/prototype/populate/test/troubleshoot,
REV 1.1 repopulate test. At what $ 30/Hour + parts.
I would guess at least $ 200 more, if 20 people were still interested at that price.
Some will probably wish for dual DAC chips making the market smaller still.
If it were that easy then lots of good quality AK4499 dacs would already be on the market. Also, the Chinese ones on the market so far don't seem to be luring a lot of buyers. We still aren't getting user reports on how they sound.
Hi there.
Just a comment from the sideline. (I'm not running Ians devices anymore)
I made bad experiences with plain supercaps on the output. I'm talking about the Allo Shanti in particluar - because that's what I have here.
But the solutions you're discussing over here are not much different - as far as I see it.
I very well understand the huge temptations behind running these pure power
supplies. The first supply of this kind (I was aware off ) used for audio I had the pleasure to enjoy in 2011.
People tend to forget some important subjects though.
First of all Supercaps are very dangerous devices.
Looking at all these DIY solutions over here and elsewhere and looking even at professional solutions (e.g. Allo) I find that the turn-on and turn-off behavior towards the load is not properly handled in many cases I've seen.
1.
IMO it's not a good idea to discharge the supercaps over the load. That can lead to
very strange situations, since the load remains for quite some time on voltage levels
that let the load float in a grey zone. That's not good.
2.
The discharging can take forever. You have to be very careful unplugging the loads.
You never know where you're at.
3.
Then - in my case - I experience nasty turn on and off thumps/strange noises.
I called it "cap-sucker noise".
There's a lot of stress on the system.
(4.) The charging cycle also needs to be carefully engineered. But that's not that
critical and much easier to accomplish.
Conclusion:
Low noise and low ESR = ultimate power
....is not everything.
And yep "Everything Matters" ...
.
...even device and user safety.
********
To fight all this mess, I introduced relays after the supercaps. The relays are controlled
with an ESP8266 and fired by an external 5V source. That pretty much solved
all my issues I had with that supercap solution.
Sideeffect: By having the ESP in the loop I now have a nice remote control unit in place and can nicely control and time-shift my supercap power rails.
What remains an open topic to me is the "bleeding part". Allo mentioned once that they have taken care on that part.
Enjoy.
Just a comment from the sideline. (I'm not running Ians devices anymore)
I made bad experiences with plain supercaps on the output. I'm talking about the Allo Shanti in particluar - because that's what I have here.
But the solutions you're discussing over here are not much different - as far as I see it.
I very well understand the huge temptations behind running these pure power
supplies. The first supply of this kind (I was aware off ) used for audio I had the pleasure to enjoy in 2011.
People tend to forget some important subjects though.
First of all Supercaps are very dangerous devices.
Looking at all these DIY solutions over here and elsewhere and looking even at professional solutions (e.g. Allo) I find that the turn-on and turn-off behavior towards the load is not properly handled in many cases I've seen.
1.
IMO it's not a good idea to discharge the supercaps over the load. That can lead to
very strange situations, since the load remains for quite some time on voltage levels
that let the load float in a grey zone. That's not good.
2.
The discharging can take forever. You have to be very careful unplugging the loads.
You never know where you're at.
3.
Then - in my case - I experience nasty turn on and off thumps/strange noises.
I called it "cap-sucker noise".
There's a lot of stress on the system.(4.) The charging cycle also needs to be carefully engineered. But that's not that
critical and much easier to accomplish.
Conclusion:
Low noise and low ESR = ultimate power
....is not everything.
And yep "Everything Matters" ...
.
...even device and user safety.
********
To fight all this mess, I introduced relays after the supercaps. The relays are controlled
with an ESP8266 and fired by an external 5V source. That pretty much solved
all my issues I had with that supercap solution.
Sideeffect: By having the ESP in the loop I now have a nice remote control unit in place and can nicely control and time-shift my supercap power rails.
What remains an open topic to me is the "bleeding part". Allo mentioned once that they have taken care on that part.
Enjoy.
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Caps are dangerous but have their place
I fully agree with Soundcheck's warning that supercaps can be dangerous. I think Greg has covered this well earlier, but always good to remind. In fact all caps can be pretty dangerous. I build tube gear with pretty big power supplies. A cap bank charged with 600 volts is absolutely lethal. The supercaps I use at 2.7V 50F are pretty tame by comparison, but if you have any doubts about safety, steer clear and experiment at your own risk.
As far as turn on / off issues, I have seen non other than it can take time for a circuit to discharge. In the wireless coms business in which my former company used them they were used as an uninterruptible power supply. In the industrial application it was important to know if there was a power outage. By having a supercap, you could have enough time for a device to detect an outage on the grid and continue operating long enough to communicate the outage so that a central control system could take appropriate steps. In fact the processor was pretty similar to a Rpi. When the grid lost power, the supercap kept the processor going for 5 minutes. When the charge died so did the processor. My setup is identical. I turn on the Rpi (and the dac) and leave it on 7/24. DACs and clocks work best when they are powered up and warm all the time. If there is a brief power flicker or failure, the Rpi does not even see it. If you power it down deliberately, just leave it for a few minutes until the LED's all go out. You get a small bump in sound quality, and I would argue that the circuits are protected from power failures.
I fully agree with Soundcheck's warning that supercaps can be dangerous. I think Greg has covered this well earlier, but always good to remind. In fact all caps can be pretty dangerous. I build tube gear with pretty big power supplies. A cap bank charged with 600 volts is absolutely lethal. The supercaps I use at 2.7V 50F are pretty tame by comparison, but if you have any doubts about safety, steer clear and experiment at your own risk.
As far as turn on / off issues, I have seen non other than it can take time for a circuit to discharge. In the wireless coms business in which my former company used them they were used as an uninterruptible power supply. In the industrial application it was important to know if there was a power outage. By having a supercap, you could have enough time for a device to detect an outage on the grid and continue operating long enough to communicate the outage so that a central control system could take appropriate steps. In fact the processor was pretty similar to a Rpi. When the grid lost power, the supercap kept the processor going for 5 minutes. When the charge died so did the processor. My setup is identical. I turn on the Rpi (and the dac) and leave it on 7/24. DACs and clocks work best when they are powered up and warm all the time. If there is a brief power flicker or failure, the Rpi does not even see it. If you power it down deliberately, just leave it for a few minutes until the LED's all go out. You get a small bump in sound quality, and I would argue that the circuits are protected from power failures.
My post was not meant to be just a warning.
I've mentioned a potential solution - my solution - to cope with this IMO serious issue.
If I'm not mistaken Ians battery supply comes also with relays on the output.
LiFePOs are as dangerous as supercaps. Therefore the very same logic that applies to batteries applies to supercap supplies or buffers.
I've mentioned a potential solution - my solution - to cope with this IMO serious issue.
If I'm not mistaken Ians battery supply comes also with relays on the output.
LiFePOs are as dangerous as supercaps. Therefore the very same logic that applies to batteries applies to supercap supplies or buffers.
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I think I am missing the urgent issue you cite. My solution to turning off the streamer is a $5 toggle switch. Works like a charm. Click. Job done. I use one switch to control all the power supplies to the digital side, and another to control all the power supplies to the tube output amp. That way it is easy to leave the digital stuff powered all the time at very little cost, and only power up the tube gear when you want to make music. Given it's working perfectly, I feel I am missing what the issue is that prompt your warning/alarms.
Ah. OK. Didn't realize you still live in the dark ages of manually toggling switches.
That's been another live on my side. Sorry for the ignorance.
I simply can't live with a DIY system based on "toggle-switches" (for every DC rail!)
or on-system control knobs anymore. No wonder you're leaving it on 24/7.
Enjoy.
That's been another live on my side. Sorry for the ignorance.
I simply can't live with a DIY system based on "toggle-switches" (for every DC rail!)
or on-system control knobs anymore. No wonder you're leaving it on 24/7.
Enjoy.
Folks.
Simply look at Ians LiFePO supply. There's been a very valid reason why he's chosen
to go for relays on the rails.
My experiences with the Shanti were even confirmed by Allo. They just ignored it.
And if you turn off every single DC rail with a switch like wlowes, fair enough.
"Lab-style" operations is a pretty common approach to stereo over here. I've been doing it for years myself. I simply can't run such as system in a real-life environment.
And NO. Wasting kWatts of energy on 24/7 operations to hear "potentially" a tiny bit more this or that, nope you can't expect me or anybody else to jump on that a train.
Enjoy.
Simply look at Ians LiFePO supply. There's been a very valid reason why he's chosen
to go for relays on the rails.
My experiences with the Shanti were even confirmed by Allo. They just ignored it.
And if you turn off every single DC rail with a switch like wlowes, fair enough.
"Lab-style" operations is a pretty common approach to stereo over here. I've been doing it for years myself. I simply can't run such as system in a real-life environment.
And NO. Wasting kWatts of energy on 24/7 operations to hear "potentially" a tiny bit more this or that, nope you can't expect me or anybody else to jump on that a train.
Enjoy.
If a pi/dac setup uses 5 a @ 5v, then 15 watts. Comes out to 131 kw-hrs/yr.
From my quick google, an average fridge is 12 times higher energy consumption.
I leave mine on 24/7. Individual choice obviously, I still have manual switches.
I also just did a quick estimate, I think my energy cost is about $25/yr to leave it on.
Maybe I'll start turning it off
Randy
From my quick google, an average fridge is 12 times higher energy consumption.
I leave mine on 24/7. Individual choice obviously, I still have manual switches.
I also just did a quick estimate, I think my energy cost is about $25/yr to leave it on.
Maybe I'll start turning it off
Randy
Typo there, you meant 3a @ 5vIf a pi/dac setup uses 5 a @ 5v, then 15 watts. Comes out to 131 kw-hrs/yr.
From my quick google, an average fridge is 12 times higher energy consumption.
I leave mine on 24/7. Individual choice obviously, I still have manual switches.
I also just did a quick estimate, I think my energy cost is about $25/yr to leave it on.
Maybe I'll start turning it off
Randy
I leave mine on 24/7 too!