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ES9028Q2M driver for Raspbian based distro
ES9028Q2M driver for Raspbian based distro
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Old 13th March 2018, 10:54 AM   #61
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phofman View Post
Was this file not originally written by the author therein and was it not GPL from the start?

Rpi-ES9018K2M-DAC/es9018k2m.h at master * luoyi/Rpi-ES9018K2M-DAC * GitHub
Author has written the code without permission from original manufacturer of silicon .
You cannot have GPL on code that is basically pirated.
Then you write code based on this and claim GPL since the first code is "GPL"

Whats even funnier is that link above claims that license is Apache . Rpi-ES9018K2M-DAC/LICENSE at master * luoyi/Rpi-ES9018K2M-DAC * GitHub

Apache and GPL and incompatible , but its besides the point since the first code in fact has no license , no permission to be distributed or be made public.
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Old 13th March 2018, 11:07 AM   #62
phofman is online now phofman  Czech Republic
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For me the license is the text in the file itself.

That code is a regular alsa asoc driver communicating over standard i2c with the chip. The proprietary parts are only the constant values in the header file (regs, values). Is that what the manufacturer forbids to reveal in its NDA when asking for documentation?

I have worked on a few drivers with documentation provided by the manufacturer under NDA (linux/juli.c at master * torvalds/linux * GitHub , linux/quartet.c at master * torvalds/linux * GitHub ). But the resultant driver is GPL.
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Old 13th March 2018, 11:24 AM   #63
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Originally Posted by phofman View Post
For me the license is the text in the file itself.

That code is a regular alsa asoc driver communicating over standard i2c with the chip. The proprietary parts are only the constant values in the header file (regs, values). Is that what the manufacturer forbids to reveal in its NDA when asking for documentation?

I have worked on a few drivers with documentation provided by the manufacturer under NDA (linux/juli.c at master * torvalds/linux * GitHub , linux/quartet.c at master * torvalds/linux * GitHub ). But the resultant driver is GPL.
If the manufacturer permits to release the information (under the NDA) its perfectly fine. Your NDA probably permitted the release of info.

Ess sabre is not allowing releasing the info. Any work based on pirated code will not be able to claim GPL .

This is why after so many years of DACs using Ess Sabre IC , no one has ever used a linux driver (legally) and Clive backed off from his driver. He developed it because he expected that Ess will allow it. Ess main office stopped the driver development and release.
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Old 13th March 2018, 11:29 AM   #64
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Originally Posted by phofman View Post
FThe proprietary parts are only the constant values in the header file (regs, values). Is that what the manufacturer forbids to reveal in its NDA when asking for documentation?

.
Thats exactly whats forbidden .
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Old 13th March 2018, 11:34 AM   #65
phofman is online now phofman  Czech Republic
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How difficult is to read the I2C communication between your MCU and the DAC? All you need is a probe for a few dollars. Is reverse engineering of unencrypted I2C communication illegal in Japan?

Linux kernel contains many drivers created by the device owners through reverse engineering...
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Old 13th March 2018, 11:55 AM   #66
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Originally Posted by phofman View Post
How difficult is to read the I2C communication between your MCU and the DAC? All you need is a probe for a few dollars. Is reverse engineering of unencrypted I2C communication illegal in Japan?

Linux kernel contains many drivers created by the device owners through reverse engineering...
I am not a lawyer. I dont know the answers to hypothetical question , reverse engineering in Japan and if the code can be GPLed after that.

To answer your question someone from Software Freedom Law Center will be better qualified

What I do know is that Gondolf work based on Clive and Luoy cannot be GPLed since (at least Clive) was forbidden to release it. A derivative work (and Gondolf is clear when he says what his sources are) of that cannot be GPLed. Makes sense ?
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Old 13th March 2018, 12:59 PM   #67
phofman is online now phofman  Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by cdsgames View Post
What I do know is that Gondolf work based on Clive and Luoy cannot be GPLed since (at least Clive) was forbidden to release it. A derivative work (and Gondolf is clear when he says what his sources are) of that cannot be GPLed. Makes sense ?
Is gandolf supposed to know the history of a GPL-marked code he found on github? Actually not history of the code itself (no reason to doubt its author), but of information leading to this code... which is quite easy to get via reverse engineering of slow unencrypted I2C communication...

I understand you have done a lot of work which is "incompatible" with this code...

For me the result is simple - I will always try hard to avoid ESS chips/products based on them. Their attitude is plain stupid, there is no real-value know-how in a list of registers and their expected values - basically the very simpliest user guide for their product.
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Old 13th March 2018, 01:26 PM   #68
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Originally Posted by phofman View Post
Is gandolf supposed to know the history of a GPL-marked code he found on github? Actually not history of the code itself (no reason to doubt its author), but of information leading to this code... which is quite easy to get via reverse engineering of slow unencrypted I2C communication...

I understand you have done a lot of work which is "incompatible" with this code...

For me the result is simple - I will always try hard to avoid ESS chips/products based on them. Their attitude is plain stupid, there is no real-value know-how in a list of registers and their expected values - basically the very simpliest user guide for their product.
Gondolf signed a NDA with Ess Sabre . He is aware of what can and cannot be published . Taking what amounts to pirated code and publishing , modify it and distributing it (like he does on diyaudio) ..?
Frankly , would you do that ? Be frank also, do you think this is code that can be distributed under GPL ?

On reverse engineering the i2c and reading registers, I think its a question beyond this conversation . A good article is here Coders’ Rights Project Reverse Engineering FAQ | Electronic Frontier Foundation

I agree with your ess sabre is not being easy. However they have a fallowing and a good product.

Since the beginning I disclosed that I am also making a Ess Sbare 9038 DAC. Its bothering that we are fallowing the rules and complying with NDA and licensing while others try to find an easy shortcut and undermine (ours) and many others hard work.

I understand the appeal of Gondolf code especially for people with ess9028 boards from the far east . Use it in the privacy of your home for testing purposes . Do not link to it , do not distribute it. Do not pretend its GPL
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Old 13th March 2018, 02:04 PM   #69
phofman is online now phofman  Czech Republic
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OK, signing an NDA is a binding act. I would not sign in this situation. But I am a hobby developer, I am not making my living by producing audio items...

I believe ESS will reconsider their attitude/decision. Maybe bad in the short term for your business (or maybe not) but certainly good for the users. There is no technical reason to control an MCU to control the DAC if it can be done directly with similar commands. Of course unless the MCU does other things too (LCD, buttons, etc.) but that is a different story.
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Old 13th March 2018, 02:12 PM   #70
gandolf is offline gandolf  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdsgames View Post
Gondolf signed a NDA with Ess Sabre . He is aware of what can and cannot be published . Taking what amounts to pirated code and publishing , modify it and distributing it (like he does on diyaudio) ..?
Frankly , would you do that ? Be frank also, do you think this is code that can be distributed under GPL ?

On reverse engineering the i2c and reading registers, I think its a question beyond this conversation . A good article is here Coders’ Rights Project Reverse Engineering FAQ | Electronic Frontier Foundation

I agree with your ess sabre is not being easy. However they have a fallowing and a good product.

Since the beginning I disclosed that I am also making a Ess Sbare 9038 DAC. Its bothering that we are fallowing the rules and complying with NDA and licensing while others try to find an easy shortcut and undermine (ours) and many others hard work.

I understand the appeal of Gondolf code especially for people with ess9028 boards from the far east . Use it in the privacy of your home for testing purposes . Do not link to it , do not distribute it. Do not pretend its GPL
The NDA does not protect publicly available information, I have never be disclosed about anything regarding ES9018K2M.
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