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Equalizer APO, REW and Rephase WOW!
Equalizer APO, REW and Rephase WOW!
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Old 16th April 2017, 11:05 PM   #21
CabinetMakerRyan is offline CabinetMakerRyan  United States
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EqAPO is a system wide equalizer so you can use any player. I often use VLC player or JRiver. Sometimes I turn off EqAPO's convolver and use the one in JRiver because when you play a movie it corrects for the delay that the convolver creates by delaying the video equally. Usually though I just turn off the convolver for video playback and keep the regular EQ stuff.

Because of the latency issue, I always separate phase correction from EQ so that I can at least have EQ with no latency when latency is an issue.
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:47 AM   #22
arcgotic is offline arcgotic  Romania
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CabinetMaker, if you use Kodi player for movies, you can delay sound during playback, and it remains there after reboot. So you can always stay with EqAPO active.
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Old 19th April 2017, 11:30 AM   #23
CabinetMakerRyan is offline CabinetMakerRyan  United States
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Thanks for the tip!
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Old 19th April 2017, 11:36 AM   #24
CabinetMakerRyan is offline CabinetMakerRyan  United States
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Also to clarify, I always keep equalizer APO active however I am turning off the convolver engine that runs only the phase correction impulse file.

Frequency response correction seems to have no latency or at least not enough to make any difference. I just want to make sure that people know they will not have latency issues unless they get into fancy phase correction stuff which almost nobody wants to do because it's very difficult to get the proper measurements to do it. You must take separate measurements for the phase correction and they must be close range or you will not get anything decent to work with. The sound moving around in the room bouncing off of surfaces walls and whatnot will completely destroy your phase data. Measuring at close range with low volume levels to minimize room interaction works best for phase measurements. This is why it is impossible to get decent phase correction with any automatic system such as Audyssey or dirac live. I think it's pretty funny that dirac live advertises phase correction.

I think that the fact this requires separate different styles of measurement is all the more reason to process it as a separate layer.

As you suggested using a player that can offset the video will solve this problem of latency with the convolver engine. My biggest issue is with Netflix and YouTube as well as other streaming services. It would be really nice to find a player they can access these sources and also has the video delay function.

Last edited by CabinetMakerRyan; 19th April 2017 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:06 PM   #25
arcgotic is offline arcgotic  Romania
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Kodi has option to install YouTube plugin. Netflix, I don't know if there is a plugin available.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 12:05 PM   #26
CabinetMakerRyan is offline CabinetMakerRyan  United States
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Is anyone here using rephase and the convolver engine in equalizer APO to fix the crossover phase issues? I don't think I have ever seen another system that uses this.

This trick allows me to use 1/8 order crossover between my mid-range and tweeters to really pull down that crossover point without any of the strange effects that I would normally get out of an eighth order LR. The rest of the Crossovers on the 4-way system are 4th order LR and phase correction is applied to fix not only the crossover phase wrap but also The Oddities introduced by the ported speakers. I believe the result is really worth it, I've got a chesky recording of a drum solo and it just blows people away.

The difference is very noticeable with the kick drum. I think the phase wrap issues that are introduced by crossovers produce somewhat of a fatiguing effect. This is apparently not an issue with certain kinds of fir filters but the really cool thing about doing the phase correction separately is that you can actually fix the phase issues with passive crossovers or regular IIR DSP crossover such as the ones used in the mini DSP units. Being able to fix passive crossover and port phase issues is really spectacular in my opinion.

Obviously frequency response issues are a much bigger problem and should be addressed first, but if you manage to perfect that then I believe the next step is to address these phase issues.

Last edited by CabinetMakerRyan; 22nd April 2017 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 1st May 2017, 07:36 AM   #27
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Equalizer APO, REW and Rephase WOW!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcgotic View Post
You can also change in EQ Apo quickly if you edit config.txt file, just have in clipboard prepared different setup, change the file, save it, and instantly it is active configuration.
I am very aware of this. It's still more work than changing setups with pedalboard. It really is 4 mouseclicks to replace the whole setup with another pre configured one. Very handy when comparing different xo slopes.

Ryan:
That was my intention. To use eqapo for phase corrections only, but still stuck in happy mode after finding some good xo settings, so not very motivated to make the final measurements needed. It's on the (very) long list of stuff to do though.

Last edited by KaffiMann; 1st May 2017 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 1st May 2017, 03:47 PM   #28
HammerSandwich is offline HammerSandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
It's still more work than changing setups with pedalboard. It really is 4 mouseclicks to replace the whole setup with another pre configured one.
You can do that in EQAPO with include files. 2 clicks, actually.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 07:03 AM   #29
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Equalizer APO, REW and Rephase WOW!
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Originally Posted by HammerSandwich View Post
You can do that in EQAPO with include files. 2 clicks, actually.
I did not know that. Is that if you choose to use the gui?
I am not compatible with the eqapo gui, much easier to edit the text files.

Edit:
rePhase is quite good and easily understandable.

REW (on my computers at least) seem to have some problems with the gui as sometimes text will not show or update properly when going through low level menus and after a short while it's like navigating blindly, you just have to know where the stuff you need is located, so great tool, but with glitches.

EqAPO is a brilliant idea, but since you cannot route audio from another device you must either accept that all games and other programs must frequently be told what to do (or live with 7.1 surround routed to stereo speakers because in some programs you just can not set it manually) because of "user friendliness", or you must route audio through other software. The config.txt is relatively easy to edit to your hearts content however poorly explained the online wiki is, but it's easy once you "get it", but just setting filters and copying channels in the GUI is close to impossible for me. After a short shile you end up with a major library of filter settings and a big bunch of config files (given names by date and acronyms for general settings).

Some random VST host and a few select plugins however, you just drag whatever signal to input, set filter and drag the filter out to the soundcard output. Ridiculously easy, very low lag depending on filter and other functions. Just one single file for each completely different setup stored, all settings intact. If I decide to assign the file type to my VST host, and also use the dreadful link style opening of files and folders, I can if I want to, use one single click to change whole setups.

Last edited by KaffiMann; 3rd May 2017 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 03:44 PM   #30
HammerSandwich is offline HammerSandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
I did not know that. Is that if you choose to use the gui?
I am not compatible with the eqapo gui, much easier to edit the text files.
What I had in mind was building 2 additional config files with the different settings. After including BOTH in config.txt, you can simply choose which one is enabled. This is 2 clicks in the GUI. If editing config.txt manually, you'd need to comment the appropriate line & save, obviously.

Code:
Device: Benchmark
Channel: ALL
Preamp: -6 dB
# Include: HouseCurve.txt
# # # # #
# Choose just 1 of the following lines:
Include: HaflerSurround.txt
# Include: Movie7.1.txt
# # # # #
Include: SpkrCorrection.txt
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