Is it a good idea please : Bluetek 16750 mAh power bank
Tecknet battery which output 5V , 3.4A able !
Do I need a reg for a cleaner voltage regulation or to supress the few noise coming from such a LiPo devices ? How is the input voltage reg of the Pi3 please ?
I need a clean power as I want to use the Pi with an I2S output !
Many thanks
Tecknet battery which output 5V , 3.4A able !
Do I need a reg for a cleaner voltage regulation or to supress the few noise coming from such a LiPo devices ? How is the input voltage reg of the Pi3 please ?
I need a clean power as I want to use the Pi with an I2S output !
Many thanks
Hi jplesset,
I have it on hand, so no mobility involved :
idea is I can of course use a > 2.5A/5V reg I have to build too both feedable wit this battery or a C-Core !
As the circuit after is involving a good DAC with matched impedance I2S lines, musicality is the only goal, second is not too expensive cost (such battery is not more expensive than a C-Core traffo ! Assuming LiPo has a better ESR than leaded battery ! At the end I can also use it for my smartphone !)
I have it on hand, so no mobility involved :
idea is I can of course use a > 2.5A/5V reg I have to build too both feedable wit this battery or a C-Core !
As the circuit after is involving a good DAC with matched impedance I2S lines, musicality is the only goal, second is not too expensive cost (such battery is not more expensive than a C-Core traffo ! Assuming LiPo has a better ESR than leaded battery ! At the end I can also use it for my smartphone !)
I suspect that if you build a battery power supply, you will declare that your system is far more musical. I also suspect that if I were to change from "wall wart" power supply to battery, and you didn't know which was in use, you couldn't tell.....
My system runs on an OrangePi, using the wall transformer sold with it, and I have no intention of messing with that. The symptoms I would expect to be addressed by a "better" power supply would be background noise, and that is absent. Better than zero audible noise isn't something I'm interested in working on.
My system runs on an OrangePi, using the wall transformer sold with it, and I have no intention of messing with that. The symptoms I would expect to be addressed by a "better" power supply would be background noise, and that is absent. Better than zero audible noise isn't something I'm interested in working on.
I assume it's also about the clocking quality.... on my dac I can hear when I change the quality of an I2S wire both matched at 50 ohms ! But clock is a Crysteq, maybe the quality of the supply is involved I don't know yet. For the moment the source is a Wave I/O so USB ! The RaspBerry Pi with I2S output and matched uf-l plugs (little interface made by IanCanada) is said to be more transparent if I read the Supra member's testimonial...
Anyway I will testimonie after trying both solution...hoping it's not psychological in relation to the results !
Anyway I will testimonie after trying both solution...hoping it's not psychological in relation to the results !
What is the voltage of the fully charged cells?
How much battery drain can be accommodated before the voltage from the battery falls below the dropout voltage of the regulator?
Keep in mind that the input voltage is used (directly) to power the USB devices connected to the R-Pi. The USB voltage spec is 4.4V-5.25V but not all USB devices may work reliably at the lower end of this range.
How much battery drain can be accommodated before the voltage from the battery falls below the dropout voltage of the regulator?
Keep in mind that the input voltage is used (directly) to power the USB devices connected to the R-Pi. The USB voltage spec is 4.4V-5.25V but not all USB devices may work reliably at the lower end of this range.
Hi Charlie,
Thank you. I haven't measured yet, i'm going to do it this week-end. I still don't know yet if I will use a NAS via IP I have with dnla protocol so the Pi3 will have no HDD connected : in this case and certainly could work at less than the critical 5V...
TeckNet PowerZen 16750mAh Power Bank with BLUETEK not too much info about the battery.
Is the voltage input reg good enough in the Pi ? I have no Tools to measure batterry noise at its output !
Thank you. I haven't measured yet, i'm going to do it this week-end. I still don't know yet if I will use a NAS via IP I have with dnla protocol so the Pi3 will have no HDD connected : in this case and certainly could work at less than the critical 5V...
TeckNet PowerZen 16750mAh Power Bank with BLUETEK not too much info about the battery.
Is the voltage input reg good enough in the Pi ? I have no Tools to measure batterry noise at its output !
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Any battery will lose voltage as it is discharged. While it might be able to deliver a lot of mAh if the voltage falls enough you might not be able to make use of all of that. I would test your theory that your R-Pi will "be fine" when trying to run at less than 5V. Maybe. Just test it an see. It might be a better idea to use a battery with a higher full-charge voltage and regulate the output down to 5V with a high efficiency LDO regulator.
. CAN I POWER THE RASPBERRY PI FROM BATTERIES AS WELL AS FROM A WALL SOCKET?
Running the Raspberry Pi directly from batteries requires special care and can result in damaging or destroying your Raspberry Pi. If you consider yourself an advanced user, though, you could have a go. For example, 4xAA rechargeable batteries would provide 4.8V on a full charge. 4.8V would technically be just within the range of tolerance for the Raspberry Pi, but the system would quickly become unstable as the batteries lost their full charge. Conversely, using 4xAA Alkaline (non-rechargeable) batteries will result in 6V. 6V is outside the acceptable tolerance range and would potentially damage or, in the worst case scenario, destroy your Raspberry Pi. It is possible to provide a steady 5V from batteries by using a buck and/or boost circuit, or by using a charger pack which is specifically designed to output a steady 5V from a couple of batteries; these devices are typically marketed as mobile phone emergency battery chargers. -Power -Top
4. IS POWER OVER ETHERNET (PoE) POSSIBLE?
Not in the base device. There are adapters that would split the voltage off the Ethernet line before connecting to the Pi, but they are relatively expensive. -Power
well if the voltage stay above 4.85V for some hours it could be ok with a very low drop reg if the Pi one is not good enough : haven't find any info on it !
Running the Raspberry Pi directly from batteries requires special care and can result in damaging or destroying your Raspberry Pi. If you consider yourself an advanced user, though, you could have a go. For example, 4xAA rechargeable batteries would provide 4.8V on a full charge. 4.8V would technically be just within the range of tolerance for the Raspberry Pi, but the system would quickly become unstable as the batteries lost their full charge. Conversely, using 4xAA Alkaline (non-rechargeable) batteries will result in 6V. 6V is outside the acceptable tolerance range and would potentially damage or, in the worst case scenario, destroy your Raspberry Pi. It is possible to provide a steady 5V from batteries by using a buck and/or boost circuit, or by using a charger pack which is specifically designed to output a steady 5V from a couple of batteries; these devices are typically marketed as mobile phone emergency battery chargers. -Power -Top
4. IS POWER OVER ETHERNET (PoE) POSSIBLE?
Not in the base device. There are adapters that would split the voltage off the Ethernet line before connecting to the Pi, but they are relatively expensive. -Power
well if the voltage stay above 4.85V for some hours it could be ok with a very low drop reg if the Pi one is not good enough : haven't find any info on it !
My experience. Some thoughts.
First of all.
Stay away from the RPI3.
The WLAN and BT is of no use and is just causing trouble (more noise, more power, etc.)
I sent mine back after 2 days of testing.
2nd.
I do think it's a better idea to attach some OSCONs or similar on the different
PI powerrails first. IMO the PI inside requires better power rails.
You can't fix that from the outside.
3rd.
Using other batteries then LiFePo4 won't get you the "drive".
Obviously such a setup would require a 5V reg on the two batteries.
4th.
I'd never use AA batteries for serious audio purposes.
5th.
Using a $25 Anker battery charger and some buffering/filtering might be better than any AA
setup.
The Anker batteries actually do perform quite well. I also had EasyAcc for testing purposes. These were much worse then my Ankers.
6th.
I'm running nowadays a iFi iPower+47000uF buffer (replaced my linear supplies) on my PI2 feeding a Hifiberry DAC+ Pro. I'm more than satisfied.
7th.
No matter what you do, the PI I2S will never be of highest quality. For sure you'll need a DAC that takes care on that.
It's good idea to have the DACs I2S driver slave the PI like it's done with the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro.
8th.
The PI requires some serious software mods to get more stable on the I2S side.
Good luck.
First of all.
Stay away from the RPI3.
The WLAN and BT is of no use and is just causing trouble (more noise, more power, etc.)
I sent mine back after 2 days of testing.
2nd.
I do think it's a better idea to attach some OSCONs or similar on the different
PI powerrails first. IMO the PI inside requires better power rails.
You can't fix that from the outside.
3rd.
Using other batteries then LiFePo4 won't get you the "drive".
Obviously such a setup would require a 5V reg on the two batteries.
4th.
I'd never use AA batteries for serious audio purposes.
5th.
Using a $25 Anker battery charger and some buffering/filtering might be better than any AA
setup.
The Anker batteries actually do perform quite well. I also had EasyAcc for testing purposes. These were much worse then my Ankers.
6th.
I'm running nowadays a iFi iPower+47000uF buffer (replaced my linear supplies) on my PI2 feeding a Hifiberry DAC+ Pro. I'm more than satisfied.
7th.
No matter what you do, the PI I2S will never be of highest quality. For sure you'll need a DAC that takes care on that.
It's good idea to have the DACs I2S driver slave the PI like it's done with the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro.
8th.
The PI requires some serious software mods to get more stable on the I2S side.
Good luck.
Hi SoundCheck,
Thanks for the complete road-map. Quite interessant.
Well I have this equivalent powertank from Tecknet. Just measured it : 5.09 V.
I wanted th eOdroid but as I bought the 40 pin header to I2S uf-l plug from Iancanada I had to purchase a Pi... It was easier too at Farnell ! But I will give a try to the Odroid after ! It has an independant I2S pin while not being sota about the layout output. (but certainly better than the Pi's through its 40 pins header)
Could you please elaborate about the mods to make on the I2S programation side please ? Maybe some links ?
Please :
What do you mean by BT ? Is it the Ethernet link ?
Point 7 ! Do you talk about recloking ?
My concern is to have a good supply quiet enough and not too much expensive with the 2.5A needed for a Pi3 at full power (less in reality if you don't run all the services and ports).
My idea to take a powertank is : it's cheap, it's LiPo (not as good as LiPoFe4, but less expensive too and easier to source - while I have it for my Crysteq clock which reclock the I2S after a FIFO- ... And it's near the 5V needed by such pcbs :limit voltage power as said JPLESSET, but I wanted more t know if the embeded reg was good enough at the output of such powertank or at the inputt of the Pi 3 !
Well you say it isn't on the Pi side, I'm not surprised because the price of it and the bad reviews about the layout of the formers Pis...
Did you try such powerbank in direct without regulator between it and a Pi ?
Very interested by your 7 andf 8 points. My dac is a very more serious dac than the Hifiberry +.
I know already you prefer the ARchLinux dev, but as I have few times these days I planned to beginn with Tim Curtis Moode Audio player-server Platform...dunno if DNLA from my SYNOLOGY NAS or via USB 2.5 external HDD pluged on the Pi3 (I would like to avoid that for power management issues...).
A question remains : is a such LiPo powertanks quiet enough for our digital streamers ? Or do we need also a sota stable voltage too ? (and also a quieter rejection noise even if comming from LiPo tank battery ?). Thanks to have answered to the last one : it seems a caps bank like the Ifi gadget is better with than without, and it's easy to diy as well !
Thanks for the complete road-map. Quite interessant.
Well I have this equivalent powertank from Tecknet. Just measured it : 5.09 V.
I wanted th eOdroid but as I bought the 40 pin header to I2S uf-l plug from Iancanada I had to purchase a Pi... It was easier too at Farnell ! But I will give a try to the Odroid after ! It has an independant I2S pin while not being sota about the layout output. (but certainly better than the Pi's through its 40 pins header)
Could you please elaborate about the mods to make on the I2S programation side please ? Maybe some links ?
Please :
What do you mean by BT ? Is it the Ethernet link ?
Point 7 ! Do you talk about recloking ?
My concern is to have a good supply quiet enough and not too much expensive with the 2.5A needed for a Pi3 at full power (less in reality if you don't run all the services and ports).
My idea to take a powertank is : it's cheap, it's LiPo (not as good as LiPoFe4, but less expensive too and easier to source - while I have it for my Crysteq clock which reclock the I2S after a FIFO- ... And it's near the 5V needed by such pcbs :limit voltage power as said JPLESSET, but I wanted more t know if the embeded reg was good enough at the output of such powertank or at the inputt of the Pi 3 !
Well you say it isn't on the Pi side, I'm not surprised because the price of it and the bad reviews about the layout of the formers Pis...
Did you try such powerbank in direct without regulator between it and a Pi ?
Very interested by your 7 andf 8 points. My dac is a very more serious dac than the Hifiberry +.
I know already you prefer the ARchLinux dev, but as I have few times these days I planned to beginn with Tim Curtis Moode Audio player-server Platform...dunno if DNLA from my SYNOLOGY NAS or via USB 2.5 external HDD pluged on the Pi3 (I would like to avoid that for power management issues...).
A question remains : is a such LiPo powertanks quiet enough for our digital streamers ? Or do we need also a sota stable voltage too ? (and also a quieter rejection noise even if comming from LiPo tank battery ?). Thanks to have answered to the last one : it seems a caps bank like the Ifi gadget is better with than without, and it's easy to diy as well !
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Mine are just peachy - can't tell the least difference between this and my Pi2, running half a dozen different i2s dac's.
This 'drive' you mention. Care to put that in technical terms? Any battery delivering sufficient amperage will be completely transparent to the Pi. Given that the Pi runs just dandy with a 2.5A supply, what does this 'drive' give you?
See above.
DC is DC. An AC supply rectified is going to be better than a cell that is DC natively, why?
i2s is digital, it either works or it doesn't. How can it not be 'of the highest quality'? It fulfils the requirements for i2s or it doesn't.
No it doesn't. With the equipment you are using (Hifiberry DAC), the Pi's i2s clock is slaved to that of the Hifiberry.
It's a completely digital signal path from source to RCA output. Unless you have those mythical golden ears that can detect the difference between a $15 power cable and a $1000 one, you just can't. And in that case, you won't be using a $100 Pi+DAC to supply your audio. Jitter is only a factor if it makes the signal 0 to 1 transition undetectable, which isn't the case with a Pi+DAC working correctly.
The Hifiberry driver is included in the newest kernels. There's nothing you can do, short of rewriting the driver and redesigning the PCB, to improve on it and even then I would say it's a moot point.
@Zootalaws
You obviously should try to catch up about what happened the last decade over here at DIYA first.
Writing responses like:
It's all digital, bits are bits and DC=DC, just prove that you've been living on a different planet.
Once you've done your homework, we can continue our chat.
Good luck.
You obviously should try to catch up about what happened the last decade over here at DIYA first.
Writing responses like:
It's all digital, bits are bits and DC=DC, just prove that you've been living on a different planet.
Once you've done your homework, we can continue our chat.
Good luck.
Zootalaws can't you see when there is nothing you can add? It's obvious that your world view is out of step with the thread. It's better to go elsewhere if you want to contribute.
Sent from my x600 using Tapatalk
What is digital data if it isn't bits, please explain how digital data has changed.... As far all the digital interfaces and layouts I've worked on bits are actually bits and that's the whole point of using digital, the data gets through unaltered (unless you have serious problems), unlike analogue data. Seriously some need to accept that bits are bits and the whole field of digital design and signal integrity is built on this fact, there are no in-between bits or dark bits, just voltage representations of a 1 or a 0....
Look guys. Do your homework!!
Just one hint to start with:
There is a difference between a "logical" bit and a "physical" - or you might call it "analog" - bit.
If you guys start realizing that there might be a difference between both versions you're on the right track.
Another hint:
Think about what "jitter" is and how it affects the sound...
...Yep, a logical 1 still remains a 1, even with decent jitter in the pipe.
Enjoy.
Just one hint to start with:
There is a difference between a "logical" bit and a "physical" - or you might call it "analog" - bit.
If you guys start realizing that there might be a difference between both versions you're on the right track.
Another hint:
Think about what "jitter" is and how it affects the sound...
...Yep, a logical 1 still remains a 1, even with decent jitter in the pipe.
Enjoy.
Hi,
I think digital audio is transmitted over USB and I2S interfaces using isochronous transfer method which, unlike bulk transfer that is used for files, provides no error correction whatsoever and thus there is a chance however low, that bit-errors could occur.
The term "bit-perfect" has to be qualified in the context of isochronus transfer.
-Tim
Logical "bit-perfect"ion is not the issue in this bits=bits discussion.
The underlying assumption has to be that logical bit-perfection is a given.
Loss or change of bits as well as manipulation of bit values (DSP) belong into the "logical" category.
I guess nobody - even the "bits=bits" fraction - doubts that a change of the
logical bit-value can have certain impact to the result.
The interesting thing though is that manipulation of the bits, e.g. sample rate conversion,
not only causes changes in the logical area.
No it also causes further flaws in the physical area e.g. higher jitter.
It's all about finding the better compromise.
Enjoy.
The underlying assumption has to be that logical bit-perfection is a given.
Loss or change of bits as well as manipulation of bit values (DSP) belong into the "logical" category.
I guess nobody - even the "bits=bits" fraction - doubts that a change of the
logical bit-value can have certain impact to the result.
The interesting thing though is that manipulation of the bits, e.g. sample rate conversion,
not only causes changes in the logical area.
No it also causes further flaws in the physical area e.g. higher jitter.
It's all about finding the better compromise.
Enjoy.
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Hi Eldam.
In the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro thread we're discussing numerous issues and tweaks.
Many of them apply to PI and PI-HAT DACs in general.
I'm running a modified PicorePlayer based on TinyCore Linux currently btw.
I havn't managed to achieve that performance level with my own ARCH-Linux yet.
No other distro IMO achieves that sound performance level.
Some more comments to PI3:
The PI3 uses more then 50% more power (>3W) than the PI2 (2W)!! If you still plan to run on batteries...
The onboard WLAN is a poor performance compromise. BT (bluetooth) is not much better.
There are some benchmarks on the net.
The linpack benchmark (float processing) just shows 10% gain. Dhrystone 50%.
Overclocking the PI2 can get results even closer. Overclocking the PI3 is not recommended.
The PI3 board is a pretty poor design. They just planted the fad processor on the PI2 board. The Odroid C2 using the same processor is able to run at 2GHz.
An overclocked PI3 might cause issues.
Networking is as bad as as it used to be on the PI2.
Same applies to read/write speed on SD card.
Obviously that combined USB/network chip was and still is the worst design decision ever.
The Odroid-C2 would be the much better choice from a HW perspective.
However. The main issue with Odroid is its small community and slow software evolution (kernel).
I had the same SW/firmware issues with Cubitruck. That brought me back to the PI2.
I hope one day somebody tells the PI folks how to build quality HW.
Combine that with the Pi community and the usually most up2date SW, I guess we'd all be more than happy.
Until then we have to search for the better compromise.
Enjoy.
In the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro thread we're discussing numerous issues and tweaks.
Many of them apply to PI and PI-HAT DACs in general.
I'm running a modified PicorePlayer based on TinyCore Linux currently btw.
I havn't managed to achieve that performance level with my own ARCH-Linux yet.
No other distro IMO achieves that sound performance level.
Some more comments to PI3:
The PI3 uses more then 50% more power (>3W) than the PI2 (2W)!! If you still plan to run on batteries...
The onboard WLAN is a poor performance compromise. BT (bluetooth) is not much better.
There are some benchmarks on the net.
The linpack benchmark (float processing) just shows 10% gain. Dhrystone 50%.
Overclocking the PI2 can get results even closer. Overclocking the PI3 is not recommended.
The PI3 board is a pretty poor design. They just planted the fad processor on the PI2 board. The Odroid C2 using the same processor is able to run at 2GHz.
An overclocked PI3 might cause issues.
Networking is as bad as as it used to be on the PI2.
Same applies to read/write speed on SD card.
Obviously that combined USB/network chip was and still is the worst design decision ever.
The Odroid-C2 would be the much better choice from a HW perspective.
However. The main issue with Odroid is its small community and slow software evolution (kernel).
I had the same SW/firmware issues with Cubitruck. That brought me back to the PI2.
I hope one day somebody tells the PI folks how to build quality HW.
Combine that with the Pi community and the usually most up2date SW, I guess we'd all be more than happy.
Until then we have to search for the better compromise.
Enjoy.
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