I'm considering using a small computer or laptop as both source and active 3-way crossover & EQ (x2, for stereo). So I need to decide on a 5.1 or greater USB sound card.
I'm a little nervous about this. Partly because as a linux incompetent I previously had an unhappy time with a sound card that was said to be compatible but actually wasn't properly supported, so I'd want it to play nicely/easily with linux. And Partly because I'm moving from a fairly high end stereo dac on my current system; I don't have golden ears, but I don't want anything noticeably lacking in sound quality either.
I was wondering if the Asus Xonar U5 or U7 would fit the bill, or possibly the creative soundblaster x-fi (of which I believe the current version is the XBS). Or if anyone has better recommendations?
Many thanks,
Kev
I'm a little nervous about this. Partly because as a linux incompetent I previously had an unhappy time with a sound card that was said to be compatible but actually wasn't properly supported, so I'd want it to play nicely/easily with linux. And Partly because I'm moving from a fairly high end stereo dac on my current system; I don't have golden ears, but I don't want anything noticeably lacking in sound quality either.
I was wondering if the Asus Xonar U5 or U7 would fit the bill, or possibly the creative soundblaster x-fi (of which I believe the current version is the XBS). Or if anyone has better recommendations?
Many thanks,
Kev
I would not bet on X-Fi support.
The xonars should be ok, e.g. drivers - Is ASUS Xonar U7 supported? - Ask Ubuntu
The xonars should be ok, e.g. drivers - Is ASUS Xonar U7 supported? - Ask Ubuntu
I have the U7. Asus doesn't officially say that it works with Linux. I asked a rep. However, alsa works with it if your kernel is per this http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Vendor-Asusit
You need to edit one config file to get it to work in USB 2 mode but I believe that is true for many high speed DACs in linux.
I have not been able to get the spdif or line in to work but analogue out works well. I have only tried ubuntu and raspian based systems.
Also see here http://askubuntu.com/questions/401591/is-asus-xonar-u7-supported
So what exactly are you trying to do? If not too cumbersome I can try it out for you.
You need to edit one config file to get it to work in USB 2 mode but I believe that is true for many high speed DACs in linux.
I have not been able to get the spdif or line in to work but analogue out works well. I have only tried ubuntu and raspian based systems.
Also see here http://askubuntu.com/questions/401591/is-asus-xonar-u7-supported
So what exactly are you trying to do? If not too cumbersome I can try it out for you.
That seems encouraging, Many thanks!
The main thing I wanted to do (and I've not yet worked out how for linux) is to send low, mid and high frequencies to three analogue line outs for left and the same for right, then add EQ to the lower frequencies (in a similar fashion to a linkwitz transform).
A secondary hope was to use inputs such that I could play sources other than from the PC in question. I suppose I could add a second sound card for inputs if the xonar says no. Although I could just use Jriver in windows - would save me lots of effort in an unfamiliar environment, but would need a better PC to run it. The sound card would still be applicable though.
Thanks again
Kev
The main thing I wanted to do (and I've not yet worked out how for linux) is to send low, mid and high frequencies to three analogue line outs for left and the same for right, then add EQ to the lower frequencies (in a similar fashion to a linkwitz transform).
A secondary hope was to use inputs such that I could play sources other than from the PC in question. I suppose I could add a second sound card for inputs if the xonar says no. Although I could just use Jriver in windows - would save me lots of effort in an unfamiliar environment, but would need a better PC to run it. The sound card would still be applicable though.
Thanks again
Kev
Kev - check out Charlie Laub's thread in the forum about the ladspa plugins. Also see here: Digital Crossover/EQ with Open-Source Software: HOWTO | Richard's Stuff
Using ecasound with ladspa filters allows you to do exactly what you like. Both inputs, and active cross-over and eq. It will even run on a raspberry pi. I recommend that you try it out with existing computer/soundcard before investing in a Xonar or other soundcard to make sure it works out in the way you want.
One note on the Xonar is that it's not perfect. I searched long for a good solution that was not too expensive, but wasn't able to find exactly what I wanted. The xonar has a headphone amp and other features set-up for a windows gaming machine, which is not really needed for pure audio - so you're paying for things you don't need plus it makes it a bit more difficult to use. For example, it requires that you run it via a powered USB hub if you like to use it with a raspberry pi (no need for a regular computer), and if you swap between headphone mode and line-out while connected to the rpi directly, it draws too much from the rpi's USB socket so it screws up the sd card. I wish there would be a decent USB multi-channel designed for audio. The Motu audio interfaces probably would be really good, but they are too expensive for me.
Using ecasound with ladspa filters allows you to do exactly what you like. Both inputs, and active cross-over and eq. It will even run on a raspberry pi. I recommend that you try it out with existing computer/soundcard before investing in a Xonar or other soundcard to make sure it works out in the way you want.
One note on the Xonar is that it's not perfect. I searched long for a good solution that was not too expensive, but wasn't able to find exactly what I wanted. The xonar has a headphone amp and other features set-up for a windows gaming machine, which is not really needed for pure audio - so you're paying for things you don't need plus it makes it a bit more difficult to use. For example, it requires that you run it via a powered USB hub if you like to use it with a raspberry pi (no need for a regular computer), and if you swap between headphone mode and line-out while connected to the rpi directly, it draws too much from the rpi's USB socket so it screws up the sd card. I wish there would be a decent USB multi-channel designed for audio. The Motu audio interfaces probably would be really good, but they are too expensive for me.
Many thanks for the pointers, very helpful stuff! Yeah i was hoping to try out charlie's approach with existing hardware, but had to give up due to hardware incompatibilities (and/or possibly my own incompetence). My thinking is that if I get a decent more compatible sound card and all else still fails then at least I will be able to use the card with a windows machine instead.
The issues with the xonar card are useful to hear of too. I certainly don't have much ability with linux so couldn't do anything clever to get around them. I am indeed considering a Pi, although I also like the idea of a small atom netbook with its own screen, and perhaps a fall-back of windows compatibility. Though that may have limited USB power too.
Many thanks again,
Kev
The issues with the xonar card are useful to hear of too. I certainly don't have much ability with linux so couldn't do anything clever to get around them. I am indeed considering a Pi, although I also like the idea of a small atom netbook with its own screen, and perhaps a fall-back of windows compatibility. Though that may have limited USB power too.
Many thanks again,
Kev
It's definetely a learning curve, but I started off "fresh" as well, but with the helpful guidance of phofman and others, I can now at least get some of the easier stuff to work.
I have a very old Atom netbook, which I put lubuntu on, and I can confirm that Xonar works fine on it.
But before that, tell us more where you got stuck on your previous attempt. Perhaps we can help?? New hardware may not solve your problem. The experts goes straight to a headless minimal build that they can set-up exactly as they want, but to learn, I started off with one of the pre-set up systems with a gui and took it step by step.
I have a very old Atom netbook, which I put lubuntu on, and I can confirm that Xonar works fine on it.
But before that, tell us more where you got stuck on your previous attempt. Perhaps we can help?? New hardware may not solve your problem. The experts goes straight to a headless minimal build that they can set-up exactly as they want, but to learn, I started off with one of the pre-set up systems with a gui and took it step by step.
That sounds encouraging, thanks. Both that you got there from fresh, and that the Xonar works on an atom netbook. Excellent stuff, I'll certainly have a go, should be interesting if nothing else.
The previous attempt was initially thwarted by my external DAC not showing up properly as a sound card. I did (with kind help from this forum) get some sound out eventually but it was poor quality as I think the drivers weren't right. But that was only a stereo DAC so no good for this project anyway (originally I intended to build an op-amp crossover). The old laptop I was using was a bit unstable with linux too, I'm sure an expert could have sorted it but I found the cause too hard to tie down.
With my limited ability I'm likely to find the software enough of a challenge, I don't want to fight the hardware first. So thats largely where the OP originated, trying to avoid that obstacle.
Cheers
Kev
The previous attempt was initially thwarted by my external DAC not showing up properly as a sound card. I did (with kind help from this forum) get some sound out eventually but it was poor quality as I think the drivers weren't right. But that was only a stereo DAC so no good for this project anyway (originally I intended to build an op-amp crossover). The old laptop I was using was a bit unstable with linux too, I'm sure an expert could have sorted it but I found the cause too hard to tie down.
With my limited ability I'm likely to find the software enough of a challenge, I don't want to fight the hardware first. So thats largely where the OP originated, trying to avoid that obstacle.
Cheers
Kev
to keep your time on audio only I would stay on Windows and go for a powerfull and good sounding sound card as the Asus Essence STX II 7.1 if enough money. (galvanic isolation, good dac chip, good opamps you can swap if you want to test more, good layout). I don't know the name for the equivalent external soundcard if you plan to leave the laptop.
there are players as Jriver (and maybe its free version for audio only "JukeBox" player) or foobar who will allow you to play the XOs and even FIR filter if you play with phase (aka time domain correction).
I am also in the same reflexion for a second system I am building!
there are players as Jriver (and maybe its free version for audio only "JukeBox" player) or foobar who will allow you to play the XOs and even FIR filter if you play with phase (aka time domain correction).
I am also in the same reflexion for a second system I am building!
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Hi, thnks for the post and sorry for my slow reply, I've been away for a few days.
Yes I agree that staying with windows would certainly save me a great deal of time and uncertainty. In fact I was hoping to get a sound card that I could use with windows initially, but also allow tinkering with (and learning) Linux to see how that compared.
I had an internal Essence STC sound card in my previous media PC, it was very good but I had lots of trouble with electrical noise from the PC affecting the analogue output of the card. That, combined with the ability to be used on small/portable computers, is why I was looking at getting a USB type instead. Unfortunately I'm struggling to find any that have sound quality as good as the internal cards; the Xonar U7 is about the closest I have so far found (at a sensible price) but Asus themselves don't seem to rate it as highly.
This isn't set in stone yet, I'm still just exploring the options (the main alternative would be some mini-dsp processors with some other source).
Cheers
Kev
Yes I agree that staying with windows would certainly save me a great deal of time and uncertainty. In fact I was hoping to get a sound card that I could use with windows initially, but also allow tinkering with (and learning) Linux to see how that compared.
I had an internal Essence STC sound card in my previous media PC, it was very good but I had lots of trouble with electrical noise from the PC affecting the analogue output of the card. That, combined with the ability to be used on small/portable computers, is why I was looking at getting a USB type instead. Unfortunately I'm struggling to find any that have sound quality as good as the internal cards; the Xonar U7 is about the closest I have so far found (at a sensible price) but Asus themselves don't seem to rate it as highly.
This isn't set in stone yet, I'm still just exploring the options (the main alternative would be some mini-dsp processors with some other source).
Cheers
Kev
Do you mean STX sound card ? What a pity it has a serious -120 dB noise floor on the paper...
Problem (?) with MiniDSP is the MiniSharck is 96 Khz max, so you if you need more it's not OK.
The Dirac serie has only Toslink or spidf input only, so the same (96 K Hz) while the noise floor not as good ! https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/summary-table but the 2 channel one (the first with 128 db)
The layout of the Hypex is certainly better while also at 96 kHz. It has no FIR but you can process a FIR (RePhase from the computer (JRiver Media center, don't find in the free JukeBox edition how to do?) or from a MiniDSP before it !
I'm lalso looking for a relative cheap solution better than MiniDSP/hypex: don't want to go for active if it's for keeping a digital conversion with its worst aspects ! We need MCLK injection !
I'm asking myself if the best way is not ot design with MiniDSP but comeback after with good passive (very low ohms coils & sota wirewound resistor) if the step choosed is not > 4 order and apply the phase correction with a RePhase from the computer ? Of Course if having a sota DAC already ! Also I am asking myself how really well work the amps when loaded with ranges like 100 Hz to 2000 Hz, etc.... as they are designed to work for on a wide range ! But that's an other topic !
Problem (?) with MiniDSP is the MiniSharck is 96 Khz max, so you if you need more it's not OK.
The Dirac serie has only Toslink or spidf input only, so the same (96 K Hz) while the noise floor not as good ! https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/summary-table but the 2 channel one (the first with 128 db)
The layout of the Hypex is certainly better while also at 96 kHz. It has no FIR but you can process a FIR (RePhase from the computer (JRiver Media center, don't find in the free JukeBox edition how to do?) or from a MiniDSP before it !
I'm lalso looking for a relative cheap solution better than MiniDSP/hypex: don't want to go for active if it's for keeping a digital conversion with its worst aspects ! We need MCLK injection !
I'm asking myself if the best way is not ot design with MiniDSP but comeback after with good passive (very low ohms coils & sota wirewound resistor) if the step choosed is not > 4 order and apply the phase correction with a RePhase from the computer ? Of Course if having a sota DAC already ! Also I am asking myself how really well work the amps when loaded with ranges like 100 Hz to 2000 Hz, etc.... as they are designed to work for on a wide range ! But that's an other topic !
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Sorry yes, I meant STX (must have hit c instad of x). It was a good sound card but all the quality and specs meant little due to PC noise leaking through to the analogue outputs. In my system the volume/attenuation will be very early in the path, in the playback software or source, and so any noise creeping in down stream will be heard at full volume even during quiet playback. Unfortunately I can't find a (consumer priced) external/USB card thats as good with respect to other aspects of sound quality.
In another thread I asked about the basic choice between PC + card and dedicated dsp. TBH I'm heading more towards the latter, partly because it seems more flexible wrt various sources (not all of which are pc based), and partly because (after doing lots of forum searching) it seems quite a lot of people have had quite a lot of frustration making PCs work easily/reliably, especially when changing playback bitrates and sources etc. Though as my main source is digital, I'm now considering the nanoDigi instead of the mini DSP, depending on what I can find for usb/spdif converters for the input and DACs for the outputs.
Cheers
Kev
In another thread I asked about the basic choice between PC + card and dedicated dsp. TBH I'm heading more towards the latter, partly because it seems more flexible wrt various sources (not all of which are pc based), and partly because (after doing lots of forum searching) it seems quite a lot of people have had quite a lot of frustration making PCs work easily/reliably, especially when changing playback bitrates and sources etc. Though as my main source is digital, I'm now considering the nanoDigi instead of the mini DSP, depending on what I can find for usb/spdif converters for the input and DACs for the outputs.
Cheers
Kev
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