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moode vs volumio vs runeaudio
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Old 5th January 2018, 12:05 PM   #71
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Obviously there are quite some people as inmate tuxx out there. I mentioned that in my last post.


Working on "Archphile" and "selling" it for years -- I'm not sure what the "...phile" is actually suggesting after his summary -- just to realize over and over that he can not make any sense out of his doing and then fooling the stupid crowd by keeping his project under that name up'n running... Hmmh.

But. I expected this feedback. There's more to come.

There were times where asynch USB DACs were the holy grail.
As soon as people started questioning that, after e.g. adding a powered USB HUB between PC and DAC - building without knowing a reclocker, regenerator, repower device - soon similar commercial solutions popped up.

Similar discussions started when talking about USB isolation. I bought
a Rover 200 from a meteorologist about ten years ago. And that worked
very well on my DDDAC during those days.
Some years later isolation as topic was up. Why that late? As soon as USB 2.0 isolator chips hit the market you could find commercial Audio USB isolators.

Talking about RPI.

The PI power rails are all but stable. What happens to clocks on unstable power rails !?!?
The USB ports are of very primitive nature. The CPU cooling is all but reasonable implemented by most users. Then there is the external power supply...
Then pair e.g. a HifiBerry DAC (powered by the PI rails) with such a device.
Achieving audiophile spheres with such a HW setup is gonna be quite a challenge.


Now with the RPI at hand. Is anybody questioning the value of the Kali as I2S reclocker??
Is anybody questioning the impact of separate power supplies for HATs ?? Why the hell are inmates designing HAT isolators !?!?

Yep. It's all snakeoil. There's no noise. There's no jitter. There's no EMI/RFI....

Bottom line.

Just let the people decide. If numerous people out there hear a difference -
without being biased beforehand - just listen to it.
For sure if you've failed over years to achieve anything with your system doesn't mean that you are right dear tuxx. It also doesn't mean you're wrong. Your finding might apply to your setup only. Who am I to question that !?!?

Enjoy. I do.
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Old 5th January 2018, 12:16 PM   #72
tuxx is offline tuxx  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
Working on "Archphile" and "selling" it for years -- I'm not sure what the "...phile" is actually suggesting after his summary -- just to realize over and over that he can not make any sense out of his doing and then fooling the stupid crowd by keeping his project under that name up'n running... Hmmh.
Yes, it's true, after my statement I will lose my customers

It's the last time Ι mention Archphile in this topic, but as you are not sure about what the "phile" is suggesting, let me help you clarify:

Archphile - A Linux Audiophile Distribution - FAQ

Quote:
– You describe Archphile as an “audiophile” distribution. What do you mean with this? Is it that good?


The term “audiophile” is usually used in order to describe people enthusiastic about high fidelity sound reproduction. Of course I don’t state that the combo of Archphile along with all these embedded boards is a high quality hi-fi or hi-end solution. To be honest, I really don’t care about this and if you are reading this lines right now, thinking of trying Archphile with your cheap embedded board, you probably agree with me. Archphile is a distribution for people that want to get the best out of these tiny boards with regards to audio reproduction and just start listening to music.
I did not state that there's no jitter or EMI/RFI. I just believe that claiming that you hear a difference in sound because of a minor kernel setting (or other similar stuff) is a PLACEBO.

Anyways, I am just a hobbyist (of course I don't "sell" anything contrary to what you mentioned) and just I expressed my opinion on all these non-sense computer audio details that people is worrying about.
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Last edited by tuxx; 5th January 2018 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 5th January 2018, 12:53 PM   #73
tuxx is offline tuxx  Greece
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Wrong post
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Old 5th January 2018, 03:54 PM   #74
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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You call everything that's been discussed snakeoil, placebo, nonsense.
Without coming up with any general argument supporting your "opinion".
Nope. It's not enough that you couldn't find any difference and derive from
that the rest of the world is nuts if they do experience (or even measure) differences!

At the same time selling an "audiophile" piece of SW build around these
snakeoil myths. How do you actually develop and test your audiophile package?
Or the tunings you've been applying over the years?? You don't hear any differences!??!
Or do you just blindly copy/paste stuff you catch somewhere else
and sell it under your audiophile brand !??

You know what. Sorry. Your attitude sucks!

And then you even admit you havn't understood a tiny bit what's been said.
Knowing that jitter and other disturbing factors exist won't get you anywhere!
You need to connect the logical and the physical world and combine that with your setup.
That's what I've been talking about.


DIY-Audio is a place different from e.g. Computer Audiophile or Audio Asylum.
Usually people working hand in hand in a pretty constructive and openminded manner. There are many great examples.

Obviously this is not the case with people like you Tuxx.

I don't give up hope that this might change one day.

Enjoy.

Last edited by soundcheck; 5th January 2018 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 5th January 2018, 07:00 PM   #75
tuxx is offline tuxx  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
You call everything that's been discussed snakeoil, placebo, nonsense.
Without coming up with any general argument supporting your "opinion".
Nope. It's not enough that you couldn't find any difference and derive from
that the rest of the world is nuts if they do experience (or even measure) differences!

At the same time selling an "audiophile" piece of SW build around these
snakeoil myths. How do you actually develop and test your audiophile package?
Or the tunings you've been applying over the years?? You don't hear any differences!??!
Or do you just blindly copy/paste stuff you catch somewhere else
and sell it under your audiophile brand !??

You know what. Sorry. Your attitude sucks!

And then you even admit you havn't understood a tiny bit what's been said.
Knowing that jitter and other disturbing factors exist won't get you anywhere!
You need to connect the logical and the physical world and combine that with your setup.
That's what I've been talking about.


DIY-Audio is a place different from e.g. Computer Audiophile or Audio Asylum.
Usually people working hand in hand in a pretty constructive and openminded manner. There are many great examples.

Obviously this is not the case with people like you Tuxx.

I don't give up hope that this might change one day.

Enjoy.

@Soundcheck it's obvious that you really don't like it when others disagree with you.


- To begin with, you keep mentioning the words "selling" and "brand". It's clear that you have tried to establish false impressions about me. I am not selling anything and Archphile is not a brand. I am a diyer and as a free software enthousiast, I keep sharing EVERYTHING with the community since day one. I am very curious if you have ever published any analytical guide on your own linux transport tweaks or configuration.


- You blamed me once again that I called everything a snakeoil/placebo/nonsense. This is NOT true. What I called a placebo (sound-wise) and I insist on it, are sophisticated kernel modifications, sonic differences between minor software releases etc, OS tweaks like CPU isolation etc.

This is VERY different from an I2S recklocker (which I OWN one) or a USB isolator (which again I OWN one), or with general terms like jitter (LOL).

I also stated that most possibly I would not be able to identify my distro on a blind test. I have no problem to state it again and again, and you know why? Because I don't have the hi-end illusion that my ears are "golden" and because I believe in a scientific field known as psychoacoustics.


- You blamed me for "selling" a piece of software based on snakeoil myths, which is again not true. If I wanted to "sell snakeoil", I would not give the recipe,the or the configuration files.


- You also wondered how I actually develop and my distro. The answer is very easy: with thousands of tests and measurements. And no, I don't copy/paste configuration tips I cought somewhere else. In my previous post, I mentioned that my odroid image has extra tweaking with regards to irq interrupts, cpu isolation etc. Below you will find all the explanations along with measurements that will give you an idea why I've done all this tweaking:

Archphile - An Archlinux Based Audiophile Distribution for Raspberry Pi and Udoo Quad

Archphile - An Archlinux Based Audiophile Distribution for Raspberry Pi and Udoo Quad

As you see, apart from tweaks that affect sound, there are others that affect the overall performance and stability of crappy devices like the Odroid C2 or the Raspberry Pi.


I assume that based on the post above, I really do have understood in which forum I participate, right?


To be honest, I am not used to be dragged into non-productive forum discussions, especially with people that have the illusion of being superior to others and this will be my last post to you.

Regards,

Michael
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Last edited by tuxx; 5th January 2018 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 5th January 2018, 08:26 PM   #76
rpi is offline rpi  United States
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The discussion becomes too hot. I see that some testing and measurements were mentioned several times. Is it possible to come up with well-defined tests in this area at all? Does that need any hardware (oscilloscope, logical analyzer...) or it should be possible to use just software tests? Is it possible to eliminate DAC from this equation or not?

Again if any knowledgeable (not biased) person could volunteer to conduct such tests I could provide couple Pi boards with pre-installed images in question. Otherwise this will be everlasting debate like who is stronger whale or elephant.
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Old 6th January 2018, 02:14 AM   #77
Zootalaws is offline Zootalaws  New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDIESEL77 View Post
The idea is to replace my Squeezebox Touch by this new player and connect it to a Chord Qute Ex DAC via coax and then to my amp.
The music sources will be via ethernet my Synology NAS, Internet Radios and Spotify
That device you picked would be difficult to achieve that.

Get the IQ Audio Pi DAC+ - it will blow you away and be much easier to implement. IQ Audio do a great case, too.
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Old 6th January 2018, 02:22 AM   #78
Zootalaws is offline Zootalaws  New Zealand
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Can you two take your Archphile vs Snakeoil argument somewhere else. Start your own thread.
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Old 9th January 2018, 10:20 AM   #79
bambadoo is online now bambadoo  Norway
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Archphile was the only mpd based distro that actually managed to handle my 160000+ songs in the library.
Rune, Volumio and especially Moode was slow, unstable, laggish and did not meet up to my expectations.

I actually felt it sounded better too, but that may perfectly be my imagination.

The only distro I actually advise using for MPD based playback is archphile. (using rpi2)
Thanks tuxx for your great support and software.
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Old 9th January 2018, 01:40 PM   #80
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zootalaws View Post
Can you two take your Archphile vs Snakeoil argument somewhere else. Start your own thread.
Look. Keeping on this kind of discussion is more then needed.
For many people the soundquality factor has major influence
on the decision process.
Soundquality is the ultimate subject underlying our hobby. At least for most of us.
There are 10-thousands of people out there, endless sites
and businesses focusing on this subject only. And this is going on for decades.

I do know that people like Tim (Moode) are afraid of talking
about sound quality. They simply feel better not being put into the snakeoil fraction by folks like Tuxx.


And this discussion is not about Archphile vs. anything.
It's the guy called Tuxx and his attitude which is at stake!

I do agree that such an attitude is not very beneficial for such a thread.

But. These guys will kill and are killing and have been killing any thread when it comes to discussions about sound quality.
I didn't accept it in 2007 and I don't accept this attitude today.

Enjoy.
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