Hi. Newbie here so go easy 
im just introducing myself to the world of fully active audio.. im considering options for a cost effective but top quality setup.
I recently heard about the linkwitz pluto speakers, and they look like a very interesting project. However the analogue circuitry is a bit over my head price and skills wise.
This lead me to research dsp and software alternatives, which are by all accounts quite possible, but crossover and filter theory is currently a bit beyond me too.
I could obviously haunt the forums and get something together, but,
my question is this:
if accourate is capable of analysing and correcting individual drivers along with room correction, would it be a viable solution to build the speakers and let accourate set up all the crossovers, eq and delays etc necessary to get a good result with this design? Id imagine using the results in jriver convolver or a minidsp.
Basically from my limited understanding it seems viable, but maybe there are aspects of the performance of these speakers that accourate etc cannot correctly deal with?
Any pointers most appreciated..
im just introducing myself to the world of fully active audio.. im considering options for a cost effective but top quality setup. I recently heard about the linkwitz pluto speakers, and they look like a very interesting project. However the analogue circuitry is a bit over my head price and skills wise.
This lead me to research dsp and software alternatives, which are by all accounts quite possible, but crossover and filter theory is currently a bit beyond me too.
I could obviously haunt the forums and get something together, but,
my question is this:
if accourate is capable of analysing and correcting individual drivers along with room correction, would it be a viable solution to build the speakers and let accourate set up all the crossovers, eq and delays etc necessary to get a good result with this design? Id imagine using the results in jriver convolver or a minidsp.
Basically from my limited understanding it seems viable, but maybe there are aspects of the performance of these speakers that accourate etc cannot correctly deal with?
Any pointers most appreciated..
It's a pretty complex subject.
Acourate or rePhase (free tool to start with) are not doing the job for you.
These are tools supporting you.
You need to have a basic understanding of measuring, analyzing, filters, speaker/crossover construction asf asf.
You'll have endless options to do this or that. Many filter settings are
a matter of taste. There is no right or wrong many times. That'll make things much worse for the beginner.
Then you need e.g. REW to do the measurments. You need a good microphone and a good audio interface for doing the recordings.
The learning curve will be pretty steep though. It'll take some time though.
MiniDSP is not known as high performance DSP supporting e.g. long FIRs and high samplerates. That's the same for most other DSP HW solutions, like e.g. Hypex. That basically leaves the PC for doing the DSP job.
JRiver seems to be convenient for the beginner to start the journey.
However. You'll buy-in a hell of overhead. You might have to buy VST plugins
for this or that job. Asf. Asf. IMO the much better choice IMO is a headless Linux machine running e.g. MPD and brutefir.
Then there is the DAC issue. You'll hardly make it below 1k for a good 6 channel DAC such as RME UCX or a Steinberg UR824 (to name two that would be on my list). MiniDSP is not known for highest quality DACs. That would be another major bottleneck. All these huge efforts in building an active system shouldn't be limited by low/mediocre quality DACs.
Don't forget that SW based DSPs also introduce quite some losses!!
These DSPs attenuate the digital signal prior to processing, they introduce ringing effects and many times you even face a two-stage resampling (prior to DSP and prior to DAC).
Bottom line.
There are numerous people out there being convinced that a well done passive speaker can easily compete with an active speaker at much lower cost and effort @ a much higher overall flexibility. Not to forget.
It's a hell of a task to get your active speaker perform best.
All that kept and still keeps me away going that route. And I did listen to active systems that ran Acourate filters a while back.
Anyhow. Good luck with your project.
Cheers
Acourate or rePhase (free tool to start with) are not doing the job for you.
These are tools supporting you.
You need to have a basic understanding of measuring, analyzing, filters, speaker/crossover construction asf asf.
You'll have endless options to do this or that. Many filter settings are
a matter of taste. There is no right or wrong many times. That'll make things much worse for the beginner.
Then you need e.g. REW to do the measurments. You need a good microphone and a good audio interface for doing the recordings.
The learning curve will be pretty steep though. It'll take some time though.
MiniDSP is not known as high performance DSP supporting e.g. long FIRs and high samplerates. That's the same for most other DSP HW solutions, like e.g. Hypex. That basically leaves the PC for doing the DSP job.
JRiver seems to be convenient for the beginner to start the journey.
However. You'll buy-in a hell of overhead. You might have to buy VST plugins
for this or that job. Asf. Asf. IMO the much better choice IMO is a headless Linux machine running e.g. MPD and brutefir.
Then there is the DAC issue. You'll hardly make it below 1k for a good 6 channel DAC such as RME UCX or a Steinberg UR824 (to name two that would be on my list). MiniDSP is not known for highest quality DACs. That would be another major bottleneck. All these huge efforts in building an active system shouldn't be limited by low/mediocre quality DACs.
Don't forget that SW based DSPs also introduce quite some losses!!
These DSPs attenuate the digital signal prior to processing, they introduce ringing effects and many times you even face a two-stage resampling (prior to DSP and prior to DAC).
Bottom line.
There are numerous people out there being convinced that a well done passive speaker can easily compete with an active speaker at much lower cost and effort @ a much higher overall flexibility. Not to forget.
It's a hell of a task to get your active speaker perform best.
All that kept and still keeps me away going that route. And I did listen to active systems that ran Acourate filters a while back.
Anyhow. Good luck with your project.
Cheers
Short answers to your two questions, yes and no.
I have used Audiolense and Acourate extensively for years. I am currently using Acourate for 3 way digital XO, driver time alignment/linearization, and room correction. Works perfectly for me and others: The Building of a Pure Digital System. There is a learning curve, but there are several resources to make the job easier. I wrote one here: Advanced Acourate Digital XO Time Alignment Driver Linearization Walkthrough.
Take your time. Hope that helps.
Hmmh.
This can be found in the Home-Visit section on Ackchengs page. A feedback of a visitor:
Hmmh. Not sure, if I quoted this snippet out-of-context. However.
I listened to Uli Brueggemanns system quite some time back.
I did have a very similar impression about its performance that time.
That's why I never really got myself into this.
Things might have changed over time. Perhaps it's worth a (costly) try nowadays.
thanks for the replies! im sure its a complex and involved subject.. like i say im just starting out. however i enjoy learning, and also building stuff. the pluto speakers look excellent, and simple to build.
also quite affordable if you find a way to avoid the full blown ASP. (i know the alternatives are not free.. but i already have one chipamp, and a media center pc, so im partway there)
point being if i build a full active system ill need active xover etc etc anyway, so using the pluto speakers wouldnt cost any more than any other set of reasonably priced speakers, assuming that its possible to replicate the ASP setup. ive done some more research in the meantime and as mentioned ive discovered its possible to get a minidsp to do the job, and the pluto config is available to plan owners. id certainly be purchasing plans, so this seems a good option.
i still like the idea however of doing it "all in one" with the room correction software. seems neater somehow,and in theory should give the best results possible with the selected drivers, even if not using the same exact values used by the full linkwitz asp.
i guess active vs passive is one of those polarising issues. ill find equal numbers for and against...
also quite affordable if you find a way to avoid the full blown ASP. (i know the alternatives are not free.. but i already have one chipamp, and a media center pc, so im partway there)
point being if i build a full active system ill need active xover etc etc anyway, so using the pluto speakers wouldnt cost any more than any other set of reasonably priced speakers, assuming that its possible to replicate the ASP setup. ive done some more research in the meantime and as mentioned ive discovered its possible to get a minidsp to do the job, and the pluto config is available to plan owners. id certainly be purchasing plans, so this seems a good option.
i still like the idea however of doing it "all in one" with the room correction software. seems neater somehow,and in theory should give the best results possible with the selected drivers, even if not using the same exact values used by the full linkwitz asp.
i guess active vs passive is one of those polarising issues. ill find equal numbers for and against...
The "for" fraction would have a hard time to admit that 100(0)s of $ and 100s of hours got wasted.
I did wasted plenty of time when playing around with DRC.
Bottom line. There ain't nothing like a free lunch.
However. Going for rather midfi HW, such as MiniDSP Dacs incl. rather limited processing power is not what I'd call a good idea.
Anyhow. Enjoy your journey. Most of us had to learn it the hard way.
Cheers
I did wasted plenty of time when playing around with DRC.
Bottom line. There ain't nothing like a free lunch.
However. Going for rather midfi HW, such as MiniDSP Dacs incl. rather limited processing power is not what I'd call a good idea.
Anyhow. Enjoy your journey. Most of us had to learn it the hard way.
Cheers
I evaluated several DRC software solutions over a period of 3 years and spent the associated $'s.
For me, it has been a great learning experience and I am very happy with the final solution. The learning curve is steep, which is why I wrote a how to article. However, once over the curve, I can go though the process of creating the digital xo, time alignment, and room correction in a couple of hours.
Other than a change in HF waveguide and compression driver from my original setup, I have been happily listening with no changes for 6 months and have no need to make any further adjustments.
If interested, you can check out the before (with 3 way passive) versus after (3 way digital XO, time alignment, room correction) REW measurements here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-1156.html#post3938291
and here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-1157.html#post3939813
Best regards, Mitch
For me, it has been a great learning experience and I am very happy with the final solution. The learning curve is steep, which is why I wrote a how to article. However, once over the curve, I can go though the process of creating the digital xo, time alignment, and room correction in a couple of hours.
Other than a change in HF waveguide and compression driver from my original setup, I have been happily listening with no changes for 6 months and have no need to make any further adjustments.
If interested, you can check out the before (with 3 way passive) versus after (3 way digital XO, time alignment, room correction) REW measurements here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-1156.html#post3938291
and here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-1157.html#post3939813
Best regards, Mitch
i was also considering getting digital amps such as the hifimediy u80 (?) and doing away with dacs completely.. dont know if thats a no-go too.. ive not seen too many reviews of their sound quality.. ive also got a hifimediy sabre dac. these sound great to me, are highly regarded and cheap as chips. 3 of those would run to a staggering 100 dollars or so.
i did look at the "building a pure digital system" article, and i now see that accourate isnt for the feint of heart.. i must admit id imagined the processes were much more automagic...
in any case the info is great, but im not sure if ill ever own (or hear) a hifi with an atomic clock.... im aiming a -touch -lower..
i did look at the "building a pure digital system" article, and i now see that accourate isnt for the feint of heart.. i must admit id imagined the processes were much more automagic...
in any case the info is great, but im not sure if ill ever own (or hear) a hifi with an atomic clock.... im aiming a -touch -lower..
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