Squeezebox Touch -- Modifications

Hi folks.

I prepared a little Blog-Tutorial about how to improve the SB Touch performance.

USE-CASE: connection through wired ethernet, no local server operation and no local disks attached.


You can start with the software related mods quite easily.

I prepared the tutorial that way that everybody ( at whatever skilllevel) should be able to apply the SW mods at no risk from any platform (Linux/OSX/Windows)

Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog

The gain you experience will depend very much on your system.

I do not intend to manipulate or bias anybody, therefore I do not write down
what changes you can expect. You should try it. You'll make it below 15minutes.

If you have questions or improvement proposals just let me know.

I'd appreciate if you could leave a comment at the blog what changes
you experience and what system you're using.


Enjoy.

Cheers
SC
 
This thread is a great idea. I've had a SB3 for a few years now and have been interested in modding it for some time now but never got around to it. Instead I have decided to wait for the Touch to be available here in Canada. Hopefully by then this thread will have developed enough to provide me with the info I'll need to mod it when it finally arrives.
 
Hi there

Nice initiative.
I bought mu SBT just as they were released in DK, but it took me sometime to try it out, because the sound was really terrible. I use mine as streamer only, I take the signal out by SPDIF coax.

First of all, just as you mentioned in your blog, the PSU must be replaced with a linear one. I´ve build one myself, it is just a 10-15 VA transformer @ 9V, a rectifier bridge, a smoothing cap, a bypas cap, a regulator i.e. LM7805 3A type, then another cap with bypass and voila, you are in business.
In my experience it is important that you choose the right caps, the SBT is very sensitive to the PSU indeed.
I found i.e. Sanyo WX types @ 1.000µF suitable, and as bypass I use 100nF Evox SMR polyphenylene sulphide cap, which works great in that place, but also Panasonic would work I think, especially FM.
I did not do any further mods yet, but I think a new psu for my USB HDD would be of some importance to.
Just as you found, I´ve also found that anything but wave degrades sound quality, both apple lossles and FLAC is nowhere near wave, and the reason for that might be the need of processor capacity for decoding.

WLAN makes sound much worse than necessary, but I found Ethernet to do the same thing, which I see you did not. To me a USB HDD with its own PSU does the trick, but even a USB memory stick makes it sound a lot worse.
Also the TOSlink should be avoided, it makes it sound somewhat harsch, though the difference from coax is not at all as significant as it used to be ien the earlier digital days.

When these things are considered, I must say, that I really do not miss my transports anylonger. The sound from the streamer is both very straight forward, detailed and indeed very neutral. You´ll probably experience much larger differences between recordings with this device than with your transport.
It really deserves a very high end DAC and a good 75 Ohm coax cable.
 
@ kurt

Thx for posting your findings. ( I knew that you made pretty similar experiences - we talked about it earlier ;) )


As you've seen on the blog. I prepared a chapter about ethernet tweaks. (I plan to put some more meat on the bones during the week)

I am aware that the wired ethernet connection is not the perfect solution either. Though I do regard it at the moment as the best compromise.

Taking a bit care of it though will reduce the ethernet related issues.


In the end you need to compare

1. optimized ethernet/ remote operation without any local server activities vs. 2. local standalone operation incl. local data storage.

By optimizing your ethernet setup you'll see that its impact shrinks.

I personally see more issues now running approach 2..

My vote went for 1. mainly because

1. It - in my setup - sounds better then remote WLAN and local operation after applying the mods I described - for now
2. I have access to internet radios etc.
3. I can run whatever format (.flac etc) and do the decoding on the remote
server without compromising SQ by doing it locally.
4. I have my data server -- audio, video, data at a central place, which is
much more comfortable to manage and
5. can be used by several clients.
6. Beside that, if you have a look at Amazon. Most of the negative feedback
refers to local sever operation. The software quality needs some improvements and the device is just to small to handle huge loads of data.

That's my point of view for now.

Cheers
 
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Since the SBT is so sensitive to supplies, I wonder if it makes any sense to upgrade the PSU for the USB HDD to linear to.
Does anyone know if the USB interface and cabling connects the ground planes of the disc and SBT.
If not I think it will be waste of time, but if it does, it might be possible to avoid some common mode noise originating from the smps supplied with the HDD.

Any input on that matter?

Maybe I´ll do some simple measurements to find out what this is all about though.
 
Since the SBT is so sensitive to supplies, I wonder if it makes any sense to upgrade the PSU for the USB HDD to linear to.
Does anyone know if the USB interface and cabling connects the ground planes of the disc and SBT.
If not I think it will be waste of time, but if it does, it might be possible to avoid some common mode noise originating from the smps supplied with the HDD.

Any input on that matter?

Maybe I´ll do some simple measurements to find out what this is all about though.

It's the same story as with most USB-DACS and any other USB device..
You'll have the 5V and ground connected to the receiver on pin 1 and 4. and D+/D- on 2/3.

In any case you'll build a ground loop. You need to get rid of that ground loop somehow. I guess you should also have a look where the 5V lead connects.

The same ground-loop issue I need to avoid on the ethernet port.
I'd catch the entire HF mess of the entire ethernet network, which would probably be even more messy than your HDD ground.

Solution:
I just have to get rid of the cable shield. The ethernet access is transformer coupled on the data lines.
By removing the shield I don't have any galvanic connection to the net anymore.

Since I run off batteries, the Touch itself and the rest of chain floats anyhow. I'd say no (big) issues to expect from that side.



Cheers
 
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Well then

It seems as if it is worthwhile to build a linear supply for the USB HDD then.
Especially because i did my PSU for the SBT with a 30 VA 4*9V transformer, where i paralelled 2 secondary windings, to supply 9VRMS 15 VA and then 12,7V after rectification.
The excessive 2 windings could then be serialised, doing 25V after rectification, and then regulated to 12V using a LM7812 CV + a bit of capacitance.
That might prove positive, and if not, no harm is done.

Btw. Now I know I´m putting my bare but in the beehive, but I have some different USB cables, and one of them came with my USB HDD. That cable does not cary sound very well, I´m afraid. The rest of my cables does not really differ a lot, but this one is mean. Why and how, I do not know, but this little thin cable is very much disliked in my site.
So be aware that you use USB IC´s of just reasonable quality.
And I must ad, that I do not believe in any USB cable woodoo, but this one did not carry sound very well.
 
Hi Soundcheck,

Do you know if your software mods/scripts work on a SB Duet? I guess its quite possible they are not as necessary on the duet as the functions are split between the base box and handset, the base box is doing far less than the Touch software would be. Tho any RT mods you do may be appropriate.

Great tutorial again BTW. Only mod I have to my Duet at the moment is a PS - large toroid, schotky diodes BIG caps and Teddy Pardo reg.

Cheers
 
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Klaus,
I think you also modified a SB Duet if I'm not mistaken? Seeing as there is a need for removing/disabling the screen of the Touch & the Duet has no screen anyway, is there a significant difference in the rest of the device to warrant a Touch over a Duet? How would you rate the two fully modified offerings - if Touch is 100%, is Duet 80%, 90%?

Thanks for report & blog
 
Yes, indeed, quick bit of searching and it appears Touch is prefered to Duet in terms of sound. I would love to understand what aspects are better/worse on the 2 models. For example if you were to pick up I2S directly does that change the comparrison?

Wonsering now if I should consider selling the Duet in favour of a Touch before I dig in and void the warentee!!

Cheers
 
@

3. I can run whatever format (.flac etc) and do the decoding on the remote
server without compromising SQ by doing it locally.

Hi soundcheck,

I recently bought a Squeezebox Classic (SB3) from eBay. I am using the analogue out from SB3 and I was not impressed with the sound quality out of unmodded SB3.

I hooked up a simple linear (LT1084) PSU & a big SLA battery and that improved the SQ a bit.

I read this thread & your blog and let the squeezebox server to decode the FLAC and that improve the SQ a lot. I checked the Windows task manager & found that FLAC decoder can consume 4% of a 1.8Mhz CPU, so the little SB3CPU must do some hard work..

I tried to ssh to the SB3 & there is no response so I could not check the settings for SB3.

- sng001
 
Hi folks.


The Touch is a complete different animal than the earlier products.

It is the only box which comes with an embedded Linux.
All other boxes run just "firmware" (which is not a bad thing though.)

The described SW mods apply the Touch only!

The Duet actually doesn't even have the Touch SW problems. The Duet comes with an inferior electronic setup in the audio section and powersupply.



Cheers
 
Hi folks.


The Touch is a complete different animal than the earlier products.

It is the only box which comes with an embedded Linux.
All other boxes run just "firmware" (which is not a bad thing though.)

The described SW mods apply the Touch only!

The Duet actually doesn't even have the Touch SW problems. The Duet comes with an inferior electronic setup in the audio section and powersupply.



Cheers

Yes, I'm aware the Duet has sub-optimal digital & analogue audio sections & also some PS issues. Weighed against the mods which are needed to the Touch how does it balance out - is the Duet a better base platform fro mods?

Agreed the firmware may be an issue & certainly not tweakable as Linux is!
 
Thanks SC, having read some more on the subject I realise it was a dumb question.

To quote "The Duet comes with an inferior electronic setup in the audio section". May I ask what specifically - the DAC?. If I use SPDIF out or I2S does this eliminate the inferior audio section?

Cheers
 
Yes, I'm aware the Duet has sub-optimal digital & analogue audio sections & also some PS issues. Weighed against the mods which are needed to the Touch how does it balance out - is the Duet a better base platform fro mods?

Honestly I am not sure here.

You would have to apply a lot of internal and external mods to the DUET to get to the level of the Touch when externally and SW modded (easy wins!).

One of the key features is certainly the Touch reclocker.

Not to forget the 24/96 support.

I'd say the Touch has more potential. What's bugging me is the high entry price for features I don't use.

With an external quality PS you'll get close to 600$. That's IMO quite a lot.
I bought myself a Super Teddy Reg and the Touch, which ended up at 330$ - which is IMO OK - though it is partly DIY.
Buying a quality reclocker module for the DUET would get me into the same direction.
At 600$ you might manage with your modded M2Tech and a small PC solution to challenge costwise the modded Touch scenario.
At about 330$ you won't make it, except you'd take out of equation a PC which is available already.

As a matter of fact, I'd love to compare both solutions soundwise.


Still. The operation of the Touch or Squeezebox family and the networking functions are one of the most relevant buying arguments for that solution to me.


And - no more endless Linux/CPLAY/CMP/XXHIghend/JRiver/ASIO or other PC related never ending tuning discussions.
Just use what you got an start the stream. (Almost) Plug and Play.



Cheers
 
Thanks SC, having read some more on the subject I realise it was a dumb question.

To quote "The Duet comes with an inferior electronic setup in the audio section". May I ask what specifically - the DAC?. If I use SPDIF out or I2S does this eliminate the inferior audio section?

Cheers


I do not intend to go into DUET details over here. You'll find a lot of modification infos and discussions over here at DIY-A.

As I said Logitech pretty much improved the digital section on the Touch. That's you'll realize as soon as you turn that box on, without even modifying it.

John Swensson and others report that after modifying/removing the coupling caps on the DAC output, the Touch delivers pretty good sound also on the analog output. If John claims this, I think it is worth a try.

Cheers
 
I could send you a modified Hiface on a sale or return basis but beware you may not want to return it!

Hmmh. Let see - I returned other things - even more promising - before. :D

I don't even have a reasonable system to try it.

These guys just don't get the Linux driver nor the OSX driver fixed.
They are still working on it I've been told a couple of weeks ago.
Priority is on OSX then Linux. ( Here we are again - the never ending stories around - drivers, OSes, applications,operations)

Cheers
 
Lately I´ve tried out some 96/24 source material for the SBT, which of course makes it sound more smooth and natural. This in spite of my DAC using up-sampling done by AD1896. Native 24/96 material seems to be pretty good, in spite of its much larger sensitivity to jitter than normal 16/44. But that might just lead to soundquality not so much better than 16/44 as the same jitter will be present regardless of sampling frequency.
But much more important seems the file format to be. FLAC simply wont work on a SBT, neither @ 16/44 or @ 24/96.
It seems as if you are playing LP´s with a dirty or worn needle. It both sounds thin and the top end looses delicacy and naturalness, causing you to focus your attention on sibillance and transient edges, and that is not the way music appears to you IRL.
Wave prooves its worth also in 24/96, but as SC indicates, it might be a SBT problem only, but I doubt it. To me it seems as if all the compressed formats causes trouble no matter where you decompress on the fly.

Using the SBT internal squeezebox server with a USB HDD, there are a few things, that you should consider, and I really would like hints from experienced users also regarding this.
The SBT needs to index the disc, and that will take some time, and often re-indexing stalls of some reason. I found it to be most reliable to delete the squeezebox files from the USB disc, to make it re-index from scratch now and then. That mostly because I´m in the middle of a process of ripping my CD collection, which means, that the USB is disconnected from the SBT pretty often these days.
One could also transfer the newly ripped CD´s by WLAN connection, but that is a lot slower than disconnecting the USB drive, transferring and re-connecting.
@ the time being, it takes about 2 hours to re-index my USB drive, containing around a bit more than 500GB of audio files. From a PC that would take very short time, less than a minute and probably less then 15 sec.
But the SBT sounds a lot better not connected to a PC, so I think I´ll just suffer until something better appears. :cool: