I have a similar approach. Current-out balanced DAC's, an analog signal is taken straight of the I/V resistors, straight into Aleph J balanced IN. When I need to tune the sound to suit my mood - I use different power cables, interconnects and different Fidelizer Pro settings. Bussy day at work -> solid core copper power cables and Fidelizer profile with networking. Relaxed day -> solid core copper, silver and then gold plated, Fidelizer profile without networking. Also, Aleph J does not have protection circuit any more and it is now fully DC coupled (this was unbelievable improvement!! downside -> initial bias of 150-200mV, but this settles quite quickly (10min) to 4-5 mV and it stays there
). Pure bliss.
What I failed to convey is that, with F4, you still need an extra set of interconnects, an additional signal path AND an additional amplification introduced by a pre-amp of some sort. That is, at least for me and in my opinion, inferior to having only two gain stages and as short as possible coupling between the source and amp. I also like the concept of DC coupling (here, the F4 is already DC coupled; however, the whole signal chain in F4 example will probably require at least two signal coupling capacitors due to the pre-amp necessity, compared to only one in my signal chain), balanced-in option, and single-ended operation.
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Sweet!
How many sound coupling caps do you have in that set-up?
I have an extra gain provided by a differential input transistor pair in Aleph J, but also an ability to use it with balanced sources & interconnects, and.... the single-ended output stage, which is all-important to me, personally. There's also negative feedback in my case - I think F4 does not have it (too lazy to check the circuit diagram)
How many sound coupling caps do you have in that set-up?
I have an extra gain provided by a differential input transistor pair in Aleph J, but also an ability to use it with balanced sources & interconnects, and.... the single-ended output stage, which is all-important to me, personally. There's also negative feedback in my case - I think F4 does not have it (too lazy to check the circuit diagram)
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I have had 2 identical diy F4's for some years that I wanted to use balanced using a pumpkin. The pumpkin has been partially assembled but is still not finished and will probably take a while to finish. In the meantime I used one F4 as a stereo amp (without a preamp, dac output to F4).
I bought a set of second hand Magnepan 3.7 speakers and tried the F4's (balanced fed by Rowland preamp) and was struck how laid back the sound is. Given the comments about the F4 I guess I need to attribute this laid back relaxed sound to the preamp.
I also have a pair of diy Aleph 2 monoblocks and swapped these for the F4's but left everything else the same (cables etc). The midrange is much sweeter with the Aleph 2's (no surprise) but some of the relaxed sound is gone too.
I previously bi-amped old Maggie MG3A's using a factory Aleph 3 for mid/high. This also had the sweet Aleph midrange but was still very relaxed. Much more than I now hear with the diy Aleph 2's.
Is the Aleph 3 generally more relaxed that the Aleph 2? If not, what could cause this in a diy Aleph 2?
My Aleph 2's use:
- 1kW Talema transformer 2 x 40V
- clc psu (47000uF 2.2mH 47000uF + 4.7uF mkp per rail)
- kk pcb's for amp circuit
Could this be caused by inadequate matching of the fet's, wirewound source resistors or brand/type of small electrolytic caps used in the circuit?
I would appreciate your thoughts.
I bought a set of second hand Magnepan 3.7 speakers and tried the F4's (balanced fed by Rowland preamp) and was struck how laid back the sound is. Given the comments about the F4 I guess I need to attribute this laid back relaxed sound to the preamp.
I also have a pair of diy Aleph 2 monoblocks and swapped these for the F4's but left everything else the same (cables etc). The midrange is much sweeter with the Aleph 2's (no surprise) but some of the relaxed sound is gone too.
I previously bi-amped old Maggie MG3A's using a factory Aleph 3 for mid/high. This also had the sweet Aleph midrange but was still very relaxed. Much more than I now hear with the diy Aleph 2's.
Is the Aleph 3 generally more relaxed that the Aleph 2? If not, what could cause this in a diy Aleph 2?
My Aleph 2's use:
- 1kW Talema transformer 2 x 40V
- clc psu (47000uF 2.2mH 47000uF + 4.7uF mkp per rail)
- kk pcb's for amp circuit
Could this be caused by inadequate matching of the fet's, wirewound source resistors or brand/type of small electrolytic caps used in the circuit?
I would appreciate your thoughts.
Hi Pico,
I am comparing the F4's to the Aleph 2's on Maggie 3.7's I just bought.
The rest of the setup is the same (dac to rowland pre, all connections balanced and using the same cables).
The F4's are much more relaxed.
I previously listened to a factory Aleph 3 on bianped MG3A's using the same dac and rowland pre. Midrange was sweet as expected but still very relaxed.
I am wondering if the Aleph 3 has a more relaxed sound than the Aleph 2 (this is what I am hearing) due to design differences or due to parts used in diy Aleph 2 compared to factory Aleph 3.
I hope this explains it.
I am comparing the F4's to the Aleph 2's on Maggie 3.7's I just bought.
The rest of the setup is the same (dac to rowland pre, all connections balanced and using the same cables).
The F4's are much more relaxed.
I previously listened to a factory Aleph 3 on bianped MG3A's using the same dac and rowland pre. Midrange was sweet as expected but still very relaxed.
I am wondering if the Aleph 3 has a more relaxed sound than the Aleph 2 (this is what I am hearing) due to design differences or due to parts used in diy Aleph 2 compared to factory Aleph 3.
I hope this explains it.
Well your observation is the same as mine with F4, everything just sounds right, I don't have an Aleph 2, but F4 is a very beautiful sounding amp, there is nothing it does wrong, it is super transparent, but also dynamic, it's not dry or clinical sounding, it's silky smooth and fluid.
It sounds like bloody music.
Your observations with Aleph 2 could be related to your implementation, but maybe not. I don't have experience with Aleph 2. It has lower distortion at 1 W compared to Aleph 3 though.
The better comparison would be to compare the F4 with the Aleph J. Most people prefer the Aleph J over the original Aleph, provided the Aleph J is a good match with their speakers.
Maggies are a difficult load for any Aleph though, so really it's not the best amp for it. The F4 is a far better match for Maggies.
It sounds like bloody music.
Your observations with Aleph 2 could be related to your implementation, but maybe not. I don't have experience with Aleph 2. It has lower distortion at 1 W compared to Aleph 3 though.
The better comparison would be to compare the F4 with the Aleph J. Most people prefer the Aleph J over the original Aleph, provided the Aleph J is a good match with their speakers.
Maggies are a difficult load for any Aleph though, so really it's not the best amp for it. The F4 is a far better match for Maggies.
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The setup was on different speakers (MG3A), with the Aleph 3 doing mid/hi and a class ab driving bass. In that setup I have at some time swapped the Aleph 3 for the Aleph 2's (still biamped so Aleph 2 or 3 only for mid/hi) and noted less 2nd harmonic and a less relaxed sound.
After comparing to the F4 I am just wondering if it (less relaxed sound in diy Aleph 2 vs factory Aleph 3) is due to design differences or parts. If due to the design it is what it is and I will live with it. If due to parts I can try to get my 2's to sound more relaxed, which I prefer.
After comparing to the F4 I am just wondering if it (less relaxed sound in diy Aleph 2 vs factory Aleph 3) is due to design differences or parts. If due to the design it is what it is and I will live with it. If due to parts I can try to get my 2's to sound more relaxed, which I prefer.
In the specific example of a Biamp setup you probably prefer the higher amount of 2nd harmonic of the Aleph 3 over Aleph 2.
It does not surprise me at all that you would prefer the Aleph 3 over Aleph 2 in a Biamp setup.
There could be issues with your Aleph 2 build, but it's hard to say for sure.
There are things that can be done to the Alephs to improve them.
Here are some suggestions The Aleph Design Reloaded
I would start up a new thread, specifically dedicated to improving the performance/sound of the Aleph 2, and I am sure we can make it better than how it currently sounds.
I have at least one change you could make that should be a definite improvement.
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