Re: not quite correct
Btw - with getting a little easier now by "opening" the borders - I didn't meant food, clothes, ... I meant technical stuff and ESPECIALLY ordering parts for amps etc from Europe - now you just pay for the merchandise and for posting costs - but before there was a custom etc etc ...
And as said - Slovenia was not listed in ebay - so you automaticly "fall off"
Btw - I also used to do the PCB in that manner - but now I'm a little bit older - and I want that a product of mine also looks neat and "pro" made ...
uli said:
Btw - with getting a little easier now by "opening" the borders - I didn't meant food, clothes, ... I meant technical stuff and ESPECIALLY ordering parts for amps etc from Europe - now you just pay for the merchandise and for posting costs - but before there was a custom etc etc ...
And as said - Slovenia was not listed in ebay - so you automaticly "fall off"
Btw - I also used to do the PCB in that manner - but now I'm a little bit older - and I want that a product of mine also looks neat and "pro" made ...
ahem, i live in the middle of germany. On the former "western" side.
I have to drive 20km to buy a quality jeans, or a mercedes spare part. I have to drive 60km to find a shop with good wine. My coffee beans come from the Bodensee about 800km from here, i don´t even know a shop around that sells quality socks. Loads of parts i can only get via mail / phone or internet order. Nearly all the small shops around here closed, only Aldi and Marktkauf left. Sometimes they sell fruits you would not feed your pigs in countries like Brasil or Mexico... Thanks God they still make bread in my hometown.
Half of the people here do not own anything but negative money, maybe 40% own something worth maybe 50k to 150K Euros, if you calculate aginst what they have to pay bayk to the bank. 10% own serois money and those stinking rich are less 1%. Thats capaitalism or "soziale Marktwirtschaft"
Most young people go to Kindergarden 2 years or so, go to school, 13 years, study, about 7 to 8 years in average, and then do not get real jobs... Human beeing is degraded to the funktion to recive a little money from a nonsense job or social welfare (not ,uch difference) and carry that little money to Aldi. The worst problem is, there is not much perspective for future.
Our town is in state of bankruptcy, our universtiy was cut down 20% this year, and same will happen next... Things in western and eastern europe get more equal.... in the other way people expected.
Re: Re: not quite correct
Do you really believe that I can buy firstclass parts in the
local shop around the corner in Vienna????????? (or in any other
city in the EU)
Wake up my friend, I buy all my stuff from foreign sources!
(US, GB, GER)
I do most of the pcbs on my own - you must not be afraid of
stinky chemicals.
I take many parts out of scrap units which I look after at the
local waste deposit.
When I buy from partsxpress or other overseas sources I have
to pay taxes and duties too.
I for my part do not moan because of the situation in the county
I live in. I try to be creative in finding new sources for the stuff
I need - it is a hobby nothing else!
Slovenia is such a beautiful country, you must be very happy to
live there
Uli
Stabist said:
Do you really believe that I can buy firstclass parts in the
local shop around the corner in Vienna????????? (or in any other
city in the EU)
Wake up my friend, I buy all my stuff from foreign sources!
(US, GB, GER)
I do most of the pcbs on my own - you must not be afraid of
stinky chemicals.
I take many parts out of scrap units which I look after at the
local waste deposit.
When I buy from partsxpress or other overseas sources I have
to pay taxes and duties too.
I for my part do not moan because of the situation in the county
I live in. I try to be creative in finding new sources for the stuff
I need - it is a hobby nothing else!
Slovenia is such a beautiful country, you must be very happy to
live there
Uli
I guess Singapore in that sense is more convinient, no import tax and every thing is just around the corner. Most brands are represented here. I am still complaining about having to take a 20 min taxi to go 4-5 miles to the electronics centre for the parts... oredering from the US is about 3 to 5 days away by air. The only tax is 5% sales tax for import and only if the amount is more then Singapore $ 400 ( about US$ 250).
William Lee
William Lee
Till - same stuff here about shops, wine, education, prospects, ...
Actually - I think I was a little misunderstood - I don't complain at all that I hardly live or something, etc ...
For my first 25yrs - I've always had something to eat, something to wear, a roof upon my head, I've seen some other countries, ...
So let's go back to my first reply in this subject:
My FIRST point was - that Kristijan's PCBs are not expensive for me - WHY?
- friend of mine and I decided cca 2yrs ago we will build amplification based on NP schematics for ourselves ... So - one of the steps was to design and draw a PCB ... Another was - that it would be nice to have it made by a professional company- so it would look a little bit more serious than home made ones ... After all - such diy project ain't something you will do very often - more likely - maybe one amp in few years ... And the third one was - let us use "exotic" parts - there are not many elemnts in the design - so why not spent a little more and buy "the real stuff" ...
THAT WAS THEORY.
Praxis: first completed amp was my Zen v4 - to test a little bit our skills - so it was low budget project - PCB of course home made; parts nothing special non so ever - usual resistors, power resistirs are cheap wirewound ones, Wima MKS capacitors, Jamicon capacitors in PS ... It played (actually still plays) well
Then - a big decision - should we do A3 or A5? few months passed - and a decision for A5 was finaly accepted ...
But let us this time make it a little more "pro looking" done ... After all - apparently it will be an amp that will be our companion for many years ...
After a lot of nights spent on this forum the dicision was:
- the "look" of PCB will be designed by a friend - it will be a stereo version - and then some company will produce 2 pcs for us ... Hehe - the last part was never done - the cost for 2 pcs would be over 100$ A little bit overpriced for us at that time; After all - it's not something that we'll be seen after the chassis will be finished
We've seen Kristijan's ofer at that time - and find it almost same expensive at that time ... So the 2 pcs were done in a classical diy manner - at our home ... So there will stay more money for better parts ...
- the parts must be the best possible - caddock's or Mills are A MUST; caps in PS must be Nichicon or Sprague; Cerafine for 220uF would be great; rca's and speaker terminals WBT ... blah blah blah ... Praxis: OK, we could get Caddocks in one shop - but we would have to order a big quantity ... Mills???? What's that ... Nichicon? Is that a company? Cerafine? How many? 12pcs? Don't make me laugh ... 50 or nothing ... Etc etc ...
Some ot the stuff I've manage to order afterall - but with +80% to the price I've found in catallog ... "Well, our shop must survive somehow" their answer was ...
- so the only possibility was Net order from some shops - but as stated - no credit card, to send a money in an envelope is probably not a way, ... Well, now I know I have a possibility to pay with WU Money transfer ... At least that ...
Etc etc ...
Hmm - where does Kristijan enter this story of mine?
Friend's A5 is finished; Mine still in pieces ... Non of us have time to "design" PCBs and to make them these days ... And there are still projects I would like to finish - A5 needs a preamp; I have to do a MC preamp as well, ... I have parts for another A3 "laying arround" ... My MiniA was a disaster because PCB was wrongly designed - ... So many projects and yet so chronically without time So I've decided to buy allready done PCBs/or to give them made on gerber files base ... Because from the past - that's a part that took us most of our time in realising a project ...
So where to get them ...
I haven't bought them in group buys - actually I didn't know for most of the group buys - as said - I'm not regular "client" of these forum ... I anticipate only when I have enough time ...
Kristijan's ofer ... I've studied prices again ... Not that high at all - after all - if I want custom made ones - there's quite a lot of work ... And the costs are same ... And also - there are many positive opinions about quality of his PCBs ... So an interesting option ..
And after all - I know two guys here that anticipated the AX group buy - they both claim that after adding the shipping costs, our custom costs, ... each plate reached almost 20$ ... So 40$ for stereo ... OK, less then Kristijan - but then again - 2 facts must be considered:
- I guess I will get Kristijan's boards in few days after ordering them but group buys are organised once, maybe twice a year ...;
- Kristijan claims he makes a series of 10pcs at a time - so I guess this also affects a little bit higher prices ...
So my conclusion - OK BUT KRISTIJAN MUST MAKE HIS OWN STATEMENT ABOUT THAT - I seriously doubt he's making some serious money out of that ... I guess the "profit" he has pays him his costs he has with realising the project (that's - transport costs to pick PCBs, phone costs to organise some things ...)
And mr. NELSON! I am very grateful that you are so open to the DIY community!! Your contribution to fullfill my musical satisfaction via using amplification based on your designs and IPs can not be measured at all!
Uff ... A little too long post .... I've just got carried away a bit ...
Actually - I think I was a little misunderstood - I don't complain at all that I hardly live or something, etc ...
For my first 25yrs - I've always had something to eat, something to wear, a roof upon my head, I've seen some other countries, ...
So let's go back to my first reply in this subject:
My FIRST point was - that Kristijan's PCBs are not expensive for me - WHY?
- friend of mine and I decided cca 2yrs ago we will build amplification based on NP schematics for ourselves ... So - one of the steps was to design and draw a PCB ... Another was - that it would be nice to have it made by a professional company- so it would look a little bit more serious than home made ones ... After all - such diy project ain't something you will do very often - more likely - maybe one amp in few years ... And the third one was - let us use "exotic" parts - there are not many elemnts in the design - so why not spent a little more and buy "the real stuff" ...
THAT WAS THEORY.
Praxis: first completed amp was my Zen v4 - to test a little bit our skills - so it was low budget project - PCB of course home made; parts nothing special non so ever - usual resistors, power resistirs are cheap wirewound ones, Wima MKS capacitors, Jamicon capacitors in PS ... It played (actually still plays) well
Then - a big decision - should we do A3 or A5? few months passed - and a decision for A5 was finaly accepted ...
But let us this time make it a little more "pro looking" done ... After all - apparently it will be an amp that will be our companion for many years ...
After a lot of nights spent on this forum the dicision was:
- the "look" of PCB will be designed by a friend - it will be a stereo version - and then some company will produce 2 pcs for us ... Hehe - the last part was never done - the cost for 2 pcs would be over 100$ A little bit overpriced for us at that time; After all - it's not something that we'll be seen after the chassis will be finished
We've seen Kristijan's ofer at that time - and find it almost same expensive at that time ... So the 2 pcs were done in a classical diy manner - at our home ... So there will stay more money for better parts ...
- the parts must be the best possible - caddock's or Mills are A MUST; caps in PS must be Nichicon or Sprague; Cerafine for 220uF would be great; rca's and speaker terminals WBT ... blah blah blah ... Praxis: OK, we could get Caddocks in one shop - but we would have to order a big quantity ... Mills???? What's that ... Nichicon? Is that a company? Cerafine? How many? 12pcs? Don't make me laugh ... 50 or nothing ...
Etc etc ...Some ot the stuff I've manage to order afterall - but with +80% to the price I've found in catallog ... "Well, our shop must survive somehow" their answer was ...
- so the only possibility was Net order from some shops - but as stated - no credit card, to send a money in an envelope is probably not a way, ... Well, now I know I have a possibility to pay with WU Money transfer ... At least that ...
Etc etc ...
Hmm - where does Kristijan enter this story of mine?
Friend's A5 is finished; Mine still in pieces ... Non of us have time to "design" PCBs and to make them these days ... And there are still projects I would like to finish - A5 needs a preamp; I have to do a MC preamp as well, ... I have parts for another A3 "laying arround" ... My MiniA was a disaster because PCB was wrongly designed - ... So many projects and yet so chronically without time
So I've decided to buy allready done PCBs/or to give them made on gerber files base ... Because from the past - that's a part that took us most of our time in realising a project ... So where to get them ...
I haven't bought them in group buys - actually I didn't know for most of the group buys - as said - I'm not regular "client" of these forum ... I anticipate only when I have enough time ...
Kristijan's ofer ... I've studied prices again ... Not that high at all - after all - if I want custom made ones - there's quite a lot of work ... And the costs are same ... And also - there are many positive opinions about quality of his PCBs ... So an interesting option ..
And after all - I know two guys here that anticipated the AX group buy - they both claim that after adding the shipping costs, our custom costs, ... each plate reached almost 20$ ... So 40$ for stereo ... OK, less then Kristijan - but then again - 2 facts must be considered:
- I guess I will get Kristijan's boards in few days after ordering them but group buys are organised once, maybe twice a year ...;
- Kristijan claims he makes a series of 10pcs at a time - so I guess this also affects a little bit higher prices ...
So my conclusion - OK BUT KRISTIJAN MUST MAKE HIS OWN STATEMENT ABOUT THAT - I seriously doubt he's making some serious money out of that ... I guess the "profit" he has pays him his costs he has with realising the project (that's - transport costs to pick PCBs, phone costs to organise some things ...)
And mr. NELSON! I am very grateful that you are so open to the DIY community!! Your contribution to fullfill my musical satisfaction via using amplification based on your designs and IPs can not be measured at all!
Uff ... A little too long post .... I've just got carried away a bit ...
Re: Bulgarian source
Thanks - I really didn't have a clue about this company ...
But after short checking of their page:
- on the list of countries they will ship - Slovenia is excludeed
- I also don't like this part:
" Q: How can I pay?
A: We accept Visa, EC/MC, Western Union and bank transfer (T/T) to our account.
Due to the high cost of sending and accepting bank T/T wire transfers, any orders paid by T/T will be subject to a $40 wire fee."
So out od praxis - what is the difference between Western Union and T/T? Because if those thing are the same - then
uli said:
Thanks - I really didn't have a clue about this company ...
But after short checking of their page:
- on the list of countries they will ship - Slovenia is excludeed
- I also don't like this part:
" Q: How can I pay?
A: We accept Visa, EC/MC, Western Union and bank transfer (T/T) to our account.
Due to the high cost of sending and accepting bank T/T wire transfers, any orders paid by T/T will be subject to a $40 wire fee."
So out od praxis - what is the difference between Western Union and T/T? Because if those thing are the same - then
Re: Re: Re: not quite correct
Hehe - look - I don't expect to buy everything in a local shop; but still - probably you DO have a little better possibilities to get what you want in Vienna ....
Well - actually I'm not moaning a lot - if I would do that - I would allready quit from a lot of stuff ... I have patience, don't worry
But THE FACT is that the prices here in SLO (now I'm talking generally) are growing and growing (to EU "standards") - but monthly earnings aren't ... OK, but that's not an issue ...
Yes, it is beautiful country - I wouldn't trade my hometown for big megapolis, believe me
uli said:
Do you really believe that I can buy firstclass parts in the
local shop around the corner in Vienna????????? (or in any other
city in the EU)
I for my part do not moan because of the situation in the county
I live in. I try to be creative in finding new sources for the stuff
I need - it is a hobby nothing else!
Slovenia is such a beautiful country, you must be very happy to
live there
Uli
Hehe - look - I don't expect to buy everything in a local shop; but still - probably you DO have a little better possibilities to get what you want in Vienna ....
Well - actually I'm not moaning a lot - if I would do that - I would allready quit from a lot of stuff ... I have patience, don't worry
But THE FACT is that the prices here in SLO (now I'm talking generally) are growing and growing (to EU "standards") - but monthly earnings aren't ... OK, but that's not an issue ...
Yes, it is beautiful country - I wouldn't trade my hometown for big megapolis, believe me
Re: Re: Me too
that's not different if you live in Arkansas or some other states in the US.
we have them here too. see, the US isn't that different from Europe.
Stabist said:Slovenia was not listed - the only way was to have a friend in Italy or Austria and make a business through him ...
To buy them directly here - just in my imagination ...
BUT as a student I don't have the rigjt to own a credit card; paypall is something that is a no no here
BUT - it again comlicates a lot on the custom if you order somethign form States ... The taxes are huge
that's not different if you live in Arkansas or some other states in the US.
till said:
we have them here too. see, the US isn't that different from Europe.
Andreas,
i remember >10 years ago we had one supermarket in town, and loads of small shops with very different sortiments. We had 2 post offices, 2 book shops, 2 paper shops... - now we have no post office anymore, no paper shop but on expensive and small mac paper, and one book show with only bestsellers in stock. But supermarkets, mostly dirty and at the fruits you have to sort out the rotten fruits by yourshelf, we have half a dozend now. who´s got to get real?
i remember >10 years ago we had one supermarket in town, and loads of small shops with very different sortiments. We had 2 post offices, 2 book shops, 2 paper shops... - now we have no post office anymore, no paper shop but on expensive and small mac paper, and one book show with only bestsellers in stock. But supermarkets, mostly dirty and at the fruits you have to sort out the rotten fruits by yourshelf, we have half a dozend now. who´s got to get real?
Re: CC
I've just noted it out 'cause it's a kind of a proof of what I've been explaining few posts back ...
I'm not complaining at all - if I will start to search for options to get PCBs done - I will surely send an email to them also; but then again - are you sure that with all extra costs (shipping, T/T sdditional costs, ...) PCBs from that company wouldn't get me more expensive then eg Kristijan's ones? Or the ones made in SLO ...
Btw - it's interesting how you know "better" than me what and how can I live here 
uli said:Yes they have, but for a student it seems to be difficult to get one.
Primoz,
as Slo is not on the shipping list, why dont you email and ask before you complain?
Uli
I've just noted it out 'cause it's a kind of a proof of what I've been explaining few posts back ...
I'm not complaining at all - if I will start to search for options to get PCBs done - I will surely send an email to them also; but then again - are you sure that with all extra costs (shipping, T/T sdditional costs, ...) PCBs from that company wouldn't get me more expensive then eg Kristijan's ones? Or the ones made in SLO ...
Btw - it's interesting how you know "better" than me what and how can I live here
This thread has *OFFICIALLY* gone Off Topic! 
Re: not quite correct
Thank you Uli so much for your kind words. I'll try to remember them this summer when I bump into loud, drunken, ***-grabbing Austrians down at our coast ...or when I meet Austrian "business people" setting up sham companies over here in order to be able to purchase Croatian summer houses and bypass all our taxation regulations...or when I enter an Austrian bank set up in Zagreb, offering mortgage loans at triple the average interest rate in Austria.... Thank you Uli for reminding me of all this.
Gratefully yours,
Milan
uli said:
Thank you Uli so much for your kind words. I'll try to remember them this summer when I bump into loud, drunken, ***-grabbing Austrians down at our coast ...or when I meet Austrian "business people" setting up sham companies over here in order to be able to purchase Croatian summer houses and bypass all our taxation regulations...or when I enter an Austrian bank set up in Zagreb, offering mortgage loans at triple the average interest rate in Austria.... Thank you Uli for reminding me of all this.
Gratefully yours,
Milan
Hello,
quote: Originally posted by Nelson Pass
''
You can decide for yourself whether Kristijan's statement
indicates a commercial effort or not. Frankly, I can't tell
by reading it, but that might be a language difficulty.
Perhaps Kristijan would simply like to state that his efforts
are not-for-profit. That would certainly simplify the discussion,
and of course he would then be granted a blessing for this
activity.
''
I post my statement in post #37 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=430567#post430567),
and I did not ment to be unclear regarding of this all situation, but it seems that I was, as some
peoples did not understand me completely what I was trying to say, and as these discussions
continued.
To be completely clear, I don't make these PCBs for a commerciall effort nor the profit,
and it was never my intention.
Also, as I had this PCB ''busssiness'' for the past two years, I can say with the great certainty
that if anyone would ever try to make any kind of the PCBs for the DIY world would be greatly
dissapointed with their commercial effort and success.
There is simply not that kind of market and quantity there to make the real profit that would
justify the all invested efforts, will, nervs, and a really a lot o time which is anything but little.
I am making these PCBs as I am also in this DIY hobby (‘which is incureable disease’), and not
because I wanted to make a profit.
On my website are the only PCBs that I designed for my DIY over the past years,
and they did not appeared on my site all at once.
These PCBs are designed with great passion and it took a lot of efforts and nervs for them.
As I believe that Pass Labs products are well above any other similar equipement on the market,
and their DIY projects are amoung the best there is, I also tried to create these PCBs simmilary.
I would also send the PCBs to the Mr.Pass, so he can see in live what is all about,
and to help him understand my position even better.
I wanted to make them up to the Pass Labs level, and this is why their prices seems to be higher
than the other PCBs, and because that peoples think that I making a high profit out of them.
I would like that is possible that they all are free, but this simply is not possible.
If I would make them standard in large qty at once, say 1000 or so, they would be cheap also,
but like one member said, what to do with all of them ?, there would be a lots of hassle with packing,
printing ,mailing, e-mails, …. like with the any group buy here on forum, and it is not my interest to do
this all the time, it would be too nervbraking.
I wanted to create a website from where these boards would be available for the DIY
over time, and not on the only a few occasions like with the group buys here.
My intention was to show my board design and offer the boards for the DIYers who
are not able or don’t like to make them by their own, and make the DIY even more popular.
I also wanted to show that something like this can be done in Croatia, to design and make
very high quality boards, as there is also a general opinion over here : ‘It is made in Croatia,
it for shure can not work or is not any of good, so you should not make any further
efforts with it ’, … same situation like Stabist already said earlier and which I understand exactly.
There is also major believe here that the DIY is not way to go, that someone who would like to enjoy
the HI-FI should simply buy the Sony ,Kenwood, or similar Home Theatre with the as many
as possible buttons, lagre display and silver colored metal speakers, as this is the best there is,
and the best way to go……
I believe that I explain my situation and intentions little more clear, but if there is
anything that I forget, or is unclear, I would try again if necessary.
Also, if the moderators or Mr.Pass have their different opinions on my website link,
or if there is anything against the Pass Labs IP that I done, I would stop to make all the boards,
delete all the content of my website, and apologize if I ever caused any harm to anyone by any way.
Very best regards from Croatia,
Kristijan Kljucaric
quote: Originally posted by Nelson Pass
''
You can decide for yourself whether Kristijan's statement
indicates a commercial effort or not. Frankly, I can't tell
by reading it, but that might be a language difficulty.
Perhaps Kristijan would simply like to state that his efforts
are not-for-profit. That would certainly simplify the discussion,
and of course he would then be granted a blessing for this
activity.
''
I post my statement in post #37 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=430567#post430567),
and I did not ment to be unclear regarding of this all situation, but it seems that I was, as some
peoples did not understand me completely what I was trying to say, and as these discussions
continued.
To be completely clear, I don't make these PCBs for a commerciall effort nor the profit,
and it was never my intention.
Also, as I had this PCB ''busssiness'' for the past two years, I can say with the great certainty
that if anyone would ever try to make any kind of the PCBs for the DIY world would be greatly
dissapointed with their commercial effort and success.
There is simply not that kind of market and quantity there to make the real profit that would
justify the all invested efforts, will, nervs, and a really a lot o time which is anything but little.
I am making these PCBs as I am also in this DIY hobby (‘which is incureable disease’), and not
because I wanted to make a profit.
On my website are the only PCBs that I designed for my DIY over the past years,
and they did not appeared on my site all at once.
These PCBs are designed with great passion and it took a lot of efforts and nervs for them.
As I believe that Pass Labs products are well above any other similar equipement on the market,
and their DIY projects are amoung the best there is, I also tried to create these PCBs simmilary.
I would also send the PCBs to the Mr.Pass, so he can see in live what is all about,
and to help him understand my position even better.
I wanted to make them up to the Pass Labs level, and this is why their prices seems to be higher
than the other PCBs, and because that peoples think that I making a high profit out of them.
I would like that is possible that they all are free, but this simply is not possible.
If I would make them standard in large qty at once, say 1000 or so, they would be cheap also,
but like one member said, what to do with all of them ?, there would be a lots of hassle with packing,
printing ,mailing, e-mails, …. like with the any group buy here on forum, and it is not my interest to do
this all the time, it would be too nervbraking.
I wanted to create a website from where these boards would be available for the DIY
over time, and not on the only a few occasions like with the group buys here.
My intention was to show my board design and offer the boards for the DIYers who
are not able or don’t like to make them by their own, and make the DIY even more popular.
I also wanted to show that something like this can be done in Croatia, to design and make
very high quality boards, as there is also a general opinion over here : ‘It is made in Croatia,
it for shure can not work or is not any of good, so you should not make any further
efforts with it ’, … same situation like Stabist already said earlier and which I understand exactly.
There is also major believe here that the DIY is not way to go, that someone who would like to enjoy
the HI-FI should simply buy the Sony ,Kenwood, or similar Home Theatre with the as many
as possible buttons, lagre display and silver colored metal speakers, as this is the best there is,
and the best way to go……
I believe that I explain my situation and intentions little more clear, but if there is
anything that I forget, or is unclear, I would try again if necessary.
Also, if the moderators or Mr.Pass have their different opinions on my website link,
or if there is anything against the Pass Labs IP that I done, I would stop to make all the boards,
delete all the content of my website, and apologize if I ever caused any harm to anyone by any way.
Very best regards from Croatia,
Kristijan Kljucaric
I think you could alternatively say: while Kristijan may sell PCBs for more than the amount it costs him to make them, he does not intend to make a profit. I do not know if this still violates copyright law, but I hope we support his production of Aleph series boards because it is a valuable contribution to the DIY community.
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