Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Pass Labs This forum is dedicated to Pass Labs discussion.

The F4 is a jewel... and seems underestimated
The F4 is a jewel... and seems underestimated
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th April 2019, 02:43 PM   #21
william2001 is offline william2001  United States
diyAudio Member
 
william2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Yes sir. That's where I got my pair. I'm hoping someone else will try this out and give their impression. Early days but I think it sounds really nice.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2019, 02:53 PM   #22
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
Official Court Jester
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
The F4 is a jewel... and seems underestimated
well, I did use autoformers in output of line stage



generally , I like what I have as result of using decent Iron in signal chain
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
clean thread; Cook Book;PSM LS Cook Book;Baby DiyA ;Mighty ZM's Bloggg;Papatreasure;Papa... by Mighty ZM
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2019, 12:17 AM   #23
Russellc is offline Russellc  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: midwest
The F4 is a jewel... and seems underestimated
Quote:
Originally Posted by william2001 View Post
Yes sir. That's where I got my pair. I'm hoping someone else will try this out and give their impression. Early days but I think it sounds really nice.
There's a lot I don't understand about them...didn't you say you got 6dB more gain like this? In F6, I understand there is no gain from transformer, but from solid state bits, while in M2, solid state bits are buffer, and gain is from transformer.....yet your method gives 6dB more, right?

Anyone tried M2's edcore like this?

Russellc
__________________
Pass B-1 preamp, Pass BA3 preamp, Wayne's 2018 LS, Pass F-5 Amp, Pass F-6 Amp, Pass BA-3 Amp, Pass M-2 amp, Pass Aleph J amp, Pass Pearl 2 Phono pre Tekton Enzo, Altec A7, Econowave JBL 2235H & B&C CD
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2019, 12:20 AM   #24
Russellc is offline Russellc  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: midwest
The F4 is a jewel... and seems underestimated
Quote:
Originally Posted by william2001 View Post
Yes sir. That's where I got my pair. I'm hoping someone else will try this out and give their impression. Early days but I think it sounds really nice.
I guess this would also eliminate any Dc on output?

Russellc
__________________
Pass B-1 preamp, Pass BA3 preamp, Wayne's 2018 LS, Pass F-5 Amp, Pass F-6 Amp, Pass BA-3 Amp, Pass M-2 amp, Pass Aleph J amp, Pass Pearl 2 Phono pre Tekton Enzo, Altec A7, Econowave JBL 2235H & B&C CD
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2019, 12:35 AM   #25
SanjeevM is online now SanjeevM
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
The Jean Hiraga too is a great sounding circuit.
__________________
RPi 3/ Boss DAC 1.2/ TPA3255/ Linear PSU 5V / Paradigm Monitor 11 / Non-Electronics background
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2019, 01:04 AM   #26
william2001 is offline william2001  United States
diyAudio Member
 
william2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russellc View Post
There's a lot I don't understand about them...didn't you say you got 6dB more gain like this? In F6, I understand there is no gain from transformer, but from solid state bits, while in M2, solid state bits are buffer, and gain is from transformer.....yet your method gives 6dB more, right?

Anyone tried M2's edcore like this?

Russellc
Yes, 6db gain per this diagram (stole from Zen Mod). Here's the spec sheet on the Jensen transformer if you need it: https://www.jensen-transformers.com/...-123-flpch.pdf

It's important to drive this arrangement with a low output impedance circuit for the best possible result, hence the buffer you always see in front of them. Wayne's discrete op amp has a fraction of an Ohm.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg JT123FLPCH autoformer.jpg (16.4 KB, 162 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2019, 01:10 AM   #27
william2001 is offline william2001  United States
diyAudio Member
 
william2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russellc View Post
I guess this would also eliminate any Dc on output?

Russellc
No, not used in this way. It's a single winding with one side grounded. A tiny amount (few mV) is fine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2019, 01:31 AM   #28
Russellc is offline Russellc  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: midwest
The F4 is a jewel... and seems underestimated
Quote:
Originally Posted by william2001 View Post
I'm liking the Burning OpAmp right now with my monoblock F4's. I have a Jensen autoformer between the two for some more gain. But there is something more to adding this signal iron than just gain. I'm not sure what it is, but I like it. Currently rebuilding my linestage to make it all more permanent. It's been just all tacked together for testing.
Now to see if I can de- solder transformer from F6 board. Maybe I should get new set ....I do have some edcors around, seems like someone tried them with a buffer here and wasn't so impressed?

Russellc
__________________
Pass B-1 preamp, Pass BA3 preamp, Wayne's 2018 LS, Pass F-5 Amp, Pass F-6 Amp, Pass BA-3 Amp, Pass M-2 amp, Pass Aleph J amp, Pass Pearl 2 Phono pre Tekton Enzo, Altec A7, Econowave JBL 2235H & B&C CD
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th April 2019, 02:18 AM   #29
william2001 is offline william2001  United States
diyAudio Member
 
william2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Excelsior Springs, Missouri
I was able to remove mine without any drama. But slinging solder for nearly 30 years maybe helps a little..

About gain needed which is always part of F4 discussion.. I've found with my own situation, 18db in this linestage (12db SS bits, 6db iron) is almost spot on. I don't use any resistive attenuation at all. The digital attenuator in my DAC is not throwing away too much at my normal listening levels. I think gain structure is really important. Some of my old systems had "hair trigger" volume controls before I knew any better.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


The F4 is a jewel... and seems underestimatedHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Junk Box Jewel Burnedfingers Tubes / Valves 8 16th November 2018 04:14 PM
How to fit Jewel Bearings ? JewAsh Analogue Source 2 19th November 2010 11:31 AM
How can I modify this grommes little jewel amp for guitar. JZatopa Instruments and Amps 10 2nd April 2010 10:39 PM
Unheard, Underestimated, Underground Music zayne742 Music 18 16th February 2008 05:20 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:11 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki