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Old 6th October 2019, 01:55 PM   #281
Antoinel is offline Antoinel  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Pass View Post
I plan to give some away at BAF....

Thanks Mr. Pass.
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:25 PM   #282
wg45 is offline wg45  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Pass View Post
The amount of 2nd in the XA60.8's is miniscule compared to the amount
coming out of the Korg or H2.

BTW I have 200 of these little boards, and I am trying to find the time
to stuff some up for BAF.

If you need help in stuffing the boards for BAF, I’m happy to volunteer
my time and soldering skills.

If I can help, please send me a note.
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Old 8th October 2019, 08:06 PM   #283
Antoinel is offline Antoinel  United States
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Default Fooling with Psycho-Acoustics..easy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoinel View Post
Hi Mark Johnson. Your above suggestions can be readily implemented by using Class aP amplification as follows:

1. Precision rectify the AC signal to get separate positive and negative pulses.

2. Pulses of either polarity can now be processed independently by DC amplifiers.

3. For example; the positive going pulse is amplified by a gain factor of two and the resultant summed with the intact negative pulse.

In your earlier post# ~190, you also discussed the subject regarding push-pull amplification. Class aP amplification is actually Class B;, but with a broader flexibility [and needed complexity] to fuss at will with distortion as you taught.

I will dust-off my one-of-kind stereo "precision aP generator" and explore experiments. A picture of it and its schematic are therein the thread.

best
Anton
My fascination with H2 continues unabated. The following is the experiment which Mark Johnson had suggested in an earlier post, and I later proposed to do per my above quote:

The attachment is a combination flowchart-schematic of the prototype build.

1. The top of the page shows a sine wave which is the Parent Signal or Fundamental. A peak value of [+1 Volt] is arbitrarily used for the positive-going segment spanning the real time of [0 to T] seconds. The negative segment of the AC signal spans the later time lapse of [T to T1] seconds. Its valley dip is [- 1 Volt]. My eardrums will oscillate exactly like the fundamental. The displacement or excursion of my eardrums are equal from [0 to T] as pushed in and pulled out during [T to T1] time. This is a symmetrical oscillation of my eardrums.

2. This AC signal [btw; it can also be triangular, saw tooth, square...any] is processed by a precision rectifier named a Class aP [analog Pulse] Generator.

3. This generator separates first [via rectification] the positive-going segment [0 to T] from the negative-going segment [T to T1]. It then aligns the direction of the resultant pulses to either be positive-going [as shown] or negative-going for independent processing using DC circuits.

The foolin' begins now

4. The parent red pulse [0 to T] of amplitude equal to +1.00 Vp is amplified by a non-inverter [U2] to a new height of + 1.18 Vp.

5. The parent black pulse [T to T1] of amplitude equal to + 1.00 Vp is attenuated in the non-inverting circuit of [U5] to a new [reduced] height equal to +0.91 Vp. Please note that I then normalized the resultant amplitudes.

6. The power output of the red amp [U2] is connected to the Red or + lead of the headphone. The output of the black amp [U5] is connected to the other Black or - lead of the headphone. May see it as a classical Class B operation.

7. The output of the Red amp [0 to T] moves the movable diaphragm of the headphone out or towards me or pushes air [raises pressure] in the ear canal against my eardrum; because this output current of [U2] is going in the [Red = +] lead of the phone. But note now the magnitude of the inward eardrum excursion or displacement which is proportional to the energy contained in the Red segment [0 to T] = +1.30.

8. At time [T to T1], the positive-going output pulse current of the Black amp [U5] enters the [Black = - ] lead of the headphone. It pushes in the diaphragm away from me or my ear drum and thus reduce air pressure in my ear canal. This partial vacuum in the time frame [T to T1] pulls out my eardrum to a normalized displacement equal to -1.00.


9. My ear has just experienced a Reconstituted or Distorted Fundamental; because of the different magnitude of the [in-out] displacement of my eardrum. My brain differentiates between the sound of the fundamental [equal displacement of ear drum] from that of the distorted fundamental.

10. Next reverse the leads of the headphone leads onto the output amps. This is equivalent to a 180 degree phase reversal of the resultant distorted signal. Or put a virtual mirror along the Time axis. The 180 degree reversed signal is the image therein.

11. The new situation is that my ear drum is pulled out [by partial vacuum] to a displacement of -1.30, during the [0 to T] time, and then pushed in [pressurization] to a displacement of +1.

12. My brain next sez: Antoun, I am glad to say that you don't and will fool me with your experiments/wizardry. You've heard 3 different sounds; that of the Fundamental, the distorted fundamental in bullet 9, and the distorted fundamental in bullets 10, 11.

13. What gives? The different peak to peak displacements of the ear drum, direction, and the resultant different physical, biochemical and electrical brain processes which followed inside the brain.

H2 is fun and entertainment. [B]I also see it as a survival enhancement to recognize threats.[B] I translate the impact of H2 positive phase " in one's face" per the teaching of Mr. Pass as the threat ; say from a grizzly is coming at you. By contrast H2 phase negative as this same threat is moving away or "receding". Can't outrun a grizzly. Taser it first and then run.

Best
Anton
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Old 8th October 2019, 10:57 PM   #284
Nelson Pass is offline Nelson Pass  United States
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#13 is somewhat along the lines of my own speculation with regards
to Doppler approaching vs receding.

In any case, send me your address and I will save you a trip to BAF.

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Old 8th October 2019, 11:48 PM   #285
diegomj1973 is offline diegomj1973  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoinel View Post
My fascination with H2 continues unabated. The following is the experiment which Mark Johnson had suggested in an earlier post, and I later proposed to do per my above quote:

The attachment is a combination flowchart-schematic of the prototype build.

1. The top of the page shows a sine wave which is the Parent Signal or Fundamental. A peak value of [+1 Volt] is arbitrarily used for the positive-going segment spanning the real time of [0 to T] seconds. The negative segment of the AC signal spans the later time lapse of [T to T1] seconds. Its valley dip is [- 1 Volt]. My eardrums will oscillate exactly like the fundamental. The displacement or excursion of my eardrums are equal from [0 to T] as pushed in and pulled out during [T to T1] time. This is a symmetrical oscillation of my eardrums.

2. This AC signal [btw; it can also be triangular, saw tooth, square...any] is processed by a precision rectifier named a Class aP [analog Pulse] Generator.

3. This generator separates first [via rectification] the positive-going segment [0 to T] from the negative-going segment [T to T1]. It then aligns the direction of the resultant pulses to either be positive-going [as shown] or negative-going for independent processing using DC circuits.

The foolin' begins now

4. The parent red pulse [0 to T] of amplitude equal to +1.00 Vp is amplified by a non-inverter [U2] to a new height of + 1.18 Vp.

5. The parent black pulse [T to T1] of amplitude equal to + 1.00 Vp is attenuated in the non-inverting circuit of [U5] to a new [reduced] height equal to +0.91 Vp. Please note that I then normalized the resultant amplitudes.

6. The power output of the red amp [U2] is connected to the Red or + lead of the headphone. The output of the black amp [U5] is connected to the other Black or - lead of the headphone. May see it as a classical Class B operation.

7. The output of the Red amp [0 to T] moves the movable diaphragm of the headphone out or towards me or pushes air [raises pressure] in the ear canal against my eardrum; because this output current of [U2] is going in the [Red = +] lead of the phone. But note now the magnitude of the inward eardrum excursion or displacement which is proportional to the energy contained in the Red segment [0 to T] = +1.30.

8. At time [T to T1], the positive-going output pulse current of the Black amp [U5] enters the [Black = - ] lead of the headphone. It pushes in the diaphragm away from me or my ear drum and thus reduce air pressure in my ear canal. This partial vacuum in the time frame [T to T1] pulls out my eardrum to a normalized displacement equal to -1.00.


9. My ear has just experienced a Reconstituted or Distorted Fundamental; because of the different magnitude of the [in-out] displacement of my eardrum. My brain differentiates between the sound of the fundamental [equal displacement of ear drum] from that of the distorted fundamental.

10. Next reverse the leads of the headphone leads onto the output amps. This is equivalent to a 180 degree phase reversal of the resultant distorted signal. Or put a virtual mirror along the Time axis. The 180 degree reversed signal is the image therein.

11. The new situation is that my ear drum is pulled out [by partial vacuum] to a displacement of -1.30, during the [0 to T] time, and then pushed in [pressurization] to a displacement of +1.

12. My brain next sez: Antoun, I am glad to say that you don't and will fool me with your experiments/wizardry. You've heard 3 different sounds; that of the Fundamental, the distorted fundamental in bullet 9, and the distorted fundamental in bullets 10, 11.

13. What gives? The different peak to peak displacements of the ear drum, direction, and the resultant different physical, biochemical and electrical brain processes which followed inside the brain.

H2 is fun and entertainment. [B]I also see it as a survival enhancement to recognize threats.[B] I translate the impact of H2 positive phase " in one's face" per the teaching of Mr. Pass as the threat ; say from a grizzly is coming at you. By contrast H2 phase negative as this same threat is moving away or "receding". Can't outrun a grizzly. Taser it first and then run.

Best
Anton
I would like to know how technically the stability of the asymmetry in the gain (close to 1%) would be guaranteed, both in time and frequency, waiting for the offset action. How would you avoid the consequences of zero crossing?
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Old 9th October 2019, 03:05 PM   #286
Antoinel is offline Antoinel  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Pass View Post
#13 is somewhat along the lines of my own speculation with regards
to Doppler approaching vs receding.

In any case, send me your address and I will save you a trip to BAF.

Thanks Mr. Pass for your never-ending generosity of knowledge, and the offer of H2.

I am looking at the envelope post-marked Jan. 19, 2017; which you've sent me containing two [gratis] SemiSouth SJDP120R085; to experiment with DEF.

I'll send you a letter to the address on it.

Best
Anton
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Old 9th October 2019, 03:36 PM   #287
Antoinel is offline Antoinel  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegomj1973 View Post
I would like to know how technically the stability of the asymmetry in the gain (close to 1%) would be guaranteed, both in time and frequency, waiting for the offset action. How would you avoid the consequences of zero crossing?
Hello diegomj1973.

Thanks for you post. I hope that I understand your technical concerns:

1. Class aP amplification was meant to avoid the consequences of zero crossing [X-over distortion]; before its two independent[line level] signals go to the power output stage.

2. But; I believe there is more to your valid concern. The headphone [in my schematic] is a coil of a certain inductance which also has resistance.

3. The asymmetric drive I showed at the bottom of the schematic is expected to generate two different back EMFs or magnetic storage; which must be dissipated quickly.

4. Not shown in the schematic is a 1K resistor which I put across the headphone. It removed the garbage sounds of the asymmetric back EMFs to give a crystal clear reproduction of the asymmetric music signals.

5. I will find the limits of this asymmetry. How extensive can I push it, and still be fully acceptable to my hearing.

Best
Anton
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Old 10th October 2019, 07:30 PM   #288
Antoinel is offline Antoinel  United States
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Default Pushing the envelope

The attached picture is the evolving [incremental tweaks] prototype under study.

1 The blue Tupperware on the left of the view encloses the Class aP Generator. Please peruse Post #200 in the thread 'Class aP amplification" which you'll find in the Pass Labs Forum.

2. The resultant Asymmetric or Distorted Signal Generator is seen on the prototyping-board. Any post's ability to magnify an attached picture is truly an enhancement to follow the schematic.

3. The European connector on the [2 by 4] piece of wood interfaces the Grado SR80 headphones to the prototyping board. Note that I had clipped-off Grado's standard factory plug, and then separated the Right channel's [hot-cold] leads from the Left channel [hot-cold] leads. Thus; the L and R phones no longer share a common ground. Bad idea to clip the headphones plug? Hell no. The plug was/is a great barrier to experimenting therein this study and others!

The combination signals' flow-chart/schematic shows new details. This pertains to the prototype which I currently use to listen to its music.

1. Caricature depictions of the two resultant distorted signals . As generated and its inverted one via reversing the [hot-cold] leads of the phones.

2. Pushed the distortion "envelope". A new normalized ratio equal to [1.4 to 1 ] in favor of the time segment [0 to T ] seconds.

3. A Zobel [10 Ohm in series with a 0.15uF film cap] put across the load. My poor layout on the prototyping board may have stimulated the wide bandwidth OpAmp [ RC4560] to misbehave, and generate unprovoked hash.

4. An algebraic equation which calculates % H2 distortion from the normalized data as follows:

% H2 [either phase] = 0.4 [equivalent area expansion] divided by 2.4 [ the total area of the resultant signal] multiplied by 100 [for percent] and lastly divided by 2 [it is H2 afterall]. The answer is 8.3%. Wild? Compare with the accurate [FT] number which I do not know how to do.

Hint: Use Mr. Mark Johnson's simulation values in a previous post: [ 0.5/ 2.5] X [100/2] = 10% versus 11%.

Last but not least, the resultant two distorted signals do not sound the same. The color coded leads for each phone [in the picture...magnify and track] show that my hearing favored the sound of the inverted music. Ditto for this current version of the prototype.

Hi-Fi sound? No way by the established definitions of Hi-Fi. Frankly Antoun, I don't give a damn sez by brain; you do like the music I gave you to hear via the above gizmo.

Best
Anton
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0177.jpg (882.8 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg Foolin' with PsychoAcoustics2.jpeg.jpg (436.6 KB, 159 views)
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Old 16th October 2019, 07:20 PM   #289
Antoinel is offline Antoinel  United States
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Default Another view of H2..

Four new changes are in the attached flow-chart/schematics of the positive and negative phase H2 Harmonic Generators.

1. The overall phase of the Fundamental and Reconstituted signals are the same [a must]. The resultant flow of action from the input electrical signal to its resultant sound pressure destination [eardrum] is the same for all 3 signals.

2. I normalized the valley depth to [-1] for the [T to T1] segment of the 3 different signals. This clearly exposes [only] the relative state of the eardrum during the [0 to T] segment of the 3 different signals. It is the objective.

3. A Jensen transformer[the one in diyF6] was used to reconstruct the resultant harmonius signals. The resultant signals at the secondary winding of the transformer are the inputs to Class T amp or other.

4. A substantial dose of harmonics was introduced in the Fundamental.

a. A positive phase signal was enriched with 9% H2 per my crude calculation in the previous post. Add to it the residual stragglers of higher harmonics which could give a total of say 12% THD.

b. I calculate an unbelievable 21% H2 negative phase to up to 25% %THD.

I hope diyAudio students of Fourier can use the available data;[meaning the values of Vpeak during the [0 to T] segments to recalculate with absolute accuracy.

The left flow-chart/schematic generates H2 positive phase [H2pp] . Slide [mentally] the Reconstructed signal exactly on top of the original Fundamental signal [both are in phase]. The resultant action of [H2pp] during the [0 to T] segment is to move-in the eardrum to a deeper displacement than from the Fundamental.

The right flow-chart/schematic generates H2 negative phase [H2np] . Mentally slide the Reconstructed signal atop the Fundamental. The resultant inward displacement of the eardrum is less than the Fundamental's during the [0 to T] segment.

Overlay the Fundamental [H2pp] and, [H2np] signals on top of each other. The resultant view during the [0 to T] segment shows their relative effect on the movement of the eardrum. This is an answer and or explanation.

But; how does the three signal variations sound via headphones and loudspeaker? I was surprised as you are now. Great and this is not an overstatement.
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Old 17th October 2019, 05:11 PM   #290
Nelson Pass is offline Nelson Pass  United States
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We are on pins and needles.

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