Thanks Mr. Pass!
What I tried to say is that the save in time (and probably money), is that ordering a Kit from the DIY together with the PCBs makes for one single overseas shipment + one single customs / import procedure at the country of destination.
Buying separately the PCBs from the DIY Store and the Edcors from Edcor would cost 2 x shipment (in my case around $40 or so more per shipment), plus dual customs import fees and bureaucratic paperwork, including two pick-up trips to the postal office, as import procedures are not delivered to one's door.
So I think that would save a lot of time, and, probably, money.
I could be wrong,
My deepest respect and admiration,
Rafa.
What I tried to say is that the save in time (and probably money), is that ordering a Kit from the DIY together with the PCBs makes for one single overseas shipment + one single customs / import procedure at the country of destination.
Buying separately the PCBs from the DIY Store and the Edcors from Edcor would cost 2 x shipment (in my case around $40 or so more per shipment), plus dual customs import fees and bureaucratic paperwork, including two pick-up trips to the postal office, as import procedures are not delivered to one's door.
So I think that would save a lot of time, and, probably, money.
I could be wrong,
My deepest respect and admiration,
Rafa.
At the risk of hi-jacking this thread, I just want to mention that I missed the official M2x announcement by a few hours (litterally), when I ordered M2 boards from Tea-bag in April this year.
To come to the point; I was able to order M2 boards, PSU boards, Edcors and 240/9240 Mosfets from Tea-bag... all in one order and shipped in one package. That helped me save a lot on shipping costs.
Although, I would have preferred to have the various daughterboards that the M2x offers, I'm not sorry that I bought the M2 clone boards, and I am determined to build the M2 clone as intended.
To come to the point; I was able to order M2 boards, PSU boards, Edcors and 240/9240 Mosfets from Tea-bag... all in one order and shipped in one package. That helped me save a lot on shipping costs.
Although, I would have preferred to have the various daughterboards that the M2x offers, I'm not sorry that I bought the M2 clone boards, and I am determined to build the M2 clone as intended.
Thanks for the info Meper, I have ordered mine from Don Audio as well, price including shipping from Germany is a lot cheaper than Edcor quoted to Australia, and I can wait for the longer delivery (due in stock around 23rd Oct). Don Audio's price to ship DHL air mail is 7 Euro and Edcor quoted $70.00 USD!!!
It's all good. Every builder has her/his own threshold of what they're able or willing to do themselves, and what they insist upon purchasing pre-built from others. To name one obvious example, some builders are willing and able to create their own M2 amplifier PCBoard layouts, starting from nothing except Nelson Pass's Official M2 Schematic. Tea-bag and I are among those people. But other builders are either unwilling or unable to create a PCBoard, and they gladly purchase PCBs from others.
Some builders are willing and able to build their own chassis from raw sheet metal; others prefer to buy (and pay shipment from Italy!) a pre-made chassis. Some builders are willing and able to order transformers from Edcor's website, etc. Everybody has their own preferences of build-versus-buy. And for many "Do It Yourself" people, the actual tradeoff is money-versus-convenience. Every builder has a few things they simply refuse to do themselves (drill a heatsink, measure a transistor, order parts from >1 vendor, etc), and they will gladly pay extra money for the convenience of not doing it themselves. Sometimes the dollar value of convenience is shockingly high (at least, to me it is), but if both buyer and seller agree upon the price, then I suppose the Free Market has spoken.
Hmmm, I ought to start selling fully assembled and tested Mountain View boards for $$$, surely there are a few people who would (gladly) pay handsomely for the convenience of not ordering Mountain View parts, not soldering them together, and not testing the assembled board before bolting it into their M2 amplifier. And maybe there is a market for Moffett Field supermodified Mountain View boards too, at suitably ($$$$$) rarefied prices. As long as the buyer and seller agree on the price, it's completely fair. (?)
Some builders are willing and able to build their own chassis from raw sheet metal; others prefer to buy (and pay shipment from Italy!) a pre-made chassis. Some builders are willing and able to order transformers from Edcor's website, etc. Everybody has their own preferences of build-versus-buy. And for many "Do It Yourself" people, the actual tradeoff is money-versus-convenience. Every builder has a few things they simply refuse to do themselves (drill a heatsink, measure a transistor, order parts from >1 vendor, etc), and they will gladly pay extra money for the convenience of not doing it themselves. Sometimes the dollar value of convenience is shockingly high (at least, to me it is), but if both buyer and seller agree upon the price, then I suppose the Free Market has spoken.
Hmmm, I ought to start selling fully assembled and tested Mountain View boards for $$$, surely there are a few people who would (gladly) pay handsomely for the convenience of not ordering Mountain View parts, not soldering them together, and not testing the assembled board before bolting it into their M2 amplifier. And maybe there is a market for Moffett Field supermodified Mountain View boards too, at suitably ($$$$$) rarefied prices. As long as the buyer and seller agree on the price, it's completely fair. (?)
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If I sent a box of transformers to the store, it is my estimate that they
would literally cost about the same and take as long as Edcor direct.
Bundled as part of a volume kit, it gets less problematic, but I don't have
so many of these that I could float that.
Meanwhile, it costs me more than an hour and about $50 to send a
pair of Fets offshore.
would literally cost about the same and take as long as Edcor direct.
Bundled as part of a volume kit, it gets less problematic, but I don't have
so many of these that I could float that.
Meanwhile, it costs me more than an hour and about $50 to send a
pair of Fets offshore.
Hi fgroen; if you decide to perform this experiment yourself, everything you need to know is found in the attachment to post #56 in this thread. Happy DIYing!
I got my transformers and boards Wednesday and have been learning how to use my Analog Discovery 2 as a network analyzer with the Edcors....the posts starting with Scott Wurcer's #5513311 and thru Mark Johnson's #55214666 are what caught my interest about this. I hope to have some data soon but having to learn as I go - it reminds of doing my first lab report in chemistry.
Phil
Phil
Phil, if you decide to cook up your own Zobel network to match your own Edcor transformer, I'm sure a lot of readers here would love to see a frequency response plot of your Edcor (a) using the Official M2 Schematic design and parts values of the Zobel; and also (b) using your final choice of Zobel network, that you settled upon after experimenting with the Edcor on your Analog Discovery 2, using your new optimized parts values.
Finished wiring up my M2x last night and was delighted with wonderful warm, sweet music soon after adjusting the offset. Seems smoother than my F5, maybe not at detailed, which may be a good thing for some music. Started with the Tucson board, then assembled the Ishikawa boards this morning and willingly sacrificed a set of matched JFETs. Slight hum noticed when putting my ear to the woofer that goes away when tilting the toroid 90 degrees vertical. I need to fabricate an L-bracket. (One for the F5, too!)
Thanks to Nelson, Mark and Jim for making this an easy build to achieve audio nirvana.
Thanks to Nelson, Mark and Jim for making this an easy build to achieve audio nirvana.
Congratulations on a successful M2X build! Naturally I'm going to suggest you try the other daughter cards just to see which one(s) sing the most beautifully to YOUR ears.
But, even before that, you can do some listening experiments right now with minimal soldering. Yes that's right: opamp rolling! You've got your Tucson board all put together and I assume you socketed the IC. So, try some other chips! It's a unity gain buffer with plenty of supply bypassing, give it a shot. Worthy contenders might include the LT1115, OPA227, OPA134, and of course the other part number on the schematic: OPA1611. You might want to buy a few SOIC-to-DIP adapter boards, which are available at many places including Sparkfun (link). These will let you plug in and listen to SMD opamps, without buying and assembling another set of Tucson boards.
But, even before that, you can do some listening experiments right now with minimal soldering. Yes that's right: opamp rolling! You've got your Tucson board all put together and I assume you socketed the IC. So, try some other chips! It's a unity gain buffer with plenty of supply bypassing, give it a shot. Worthy contenders might include the LT1115, OPA227, OPA134, and of course the other part number on the schematic: OPA1611. You might want to buy a few SOIC-to-DIP adapter boards, which are available at many places including Sparkfun (link). These will let you plug in and listen to SMD opamps, without buying and assembling another set of Tucson boards.
SMD Tucson was the very first surface mount soldering that 6L6 ever tried in his life. He succeeded and was rewarded with some great sounding daughter cards.
Solder it up, verify connections (& absence of shorts) with a multimeter in Buzz Continuity mode, and have a listen. Bravery is rewarded!
Solder it up, verify connections (& absence of shorts) with a multimeter in Buzz Continuity mode, and have a listen. Bravery is rewarded!
