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The diyAudio First Watt M2x
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Old 22nd November 2019, 10:48 PM   #2621
6L6 is offline 6L6  United States
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The diyAudio First Watt M2x
F6 and M2x have a lot of overlap sonically. If you're gutting the F5, build an Aleph J or wait for the next amp to papa to release...
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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:46 PM   #2622
TungstenAudio is offline TungstenAudio  United States
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Quote:
F6 and M2x have a lot of overlap sonically.
I will be testing that in more depth. My F6 is going to be running on +/– 26.2V, so I am adapting a Diamond buffer to replace the basic JFET front end. The amp is being built around a set of FQH44N10 Mosfets.
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Old 23rd November 2019, 02:00 AM   #2623
avdesignguru is offline avdesignguru  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6L6 View Post
F6 and M2x have a lot of overlap sonically. If you're gutting the F5, build an Aleph J or wait for the next amp to papa to release...
I find the Jensen in the F6 more pleasing than the Edcor in the M2x. Yes, different topology. Also, I think the F6 with manual bias can be set right on that razor's edge between just enough to smooth things out and too much heat.
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Old 23rd November 2019, 08:47 PM   #2624
Russellc is offline Russellc  United States
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Great examples of how we each have different perceptions of amps.

I found F6 to be similar to F5 than M2. All of them are excellent, so no flame here. I found F5 toTEND towards the thinner side of the scale from mid highs up, and F6 similar due to very clean sounding high end of the scale.

I kind of preferred it to F5, I think. My F5 is an earlier version without P3, which would likely help it as far as my preferences are concerned.

With M2, I found it more forgiving although still having great transparency. A solid performer with spacious sound. I need to build my set of marks boards, my M2 is teabags, so have only listened to original version. I need more cases, have a few builds needing them. I have all the parts and edcors waiting for Marks version.

With AlephJ, well, I just enjoy that amp and am always happy when it goes in system.

F6 has a great upper frequency, which could be really nice with proper speaker tuned to it. I find M2 to like everything I've thrown at it.

All of this is going to vary based on front end, rooms and speakers, not to mention everyone's different ears!

Hard to go wrong with Pass diy. Transformed my previous listening for sure.

Russellc
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Last edited by Russellc; 23rd November 2019 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 28th November 2019, 12:59 AM   #2625
WKCox is online now WKCox  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
My two most-favorites are

1. Tucson with LT1122 opamp (thru hole)

2. Norwood with AD744 and HA-5002 (SMD)
LT1122s arrived from Mouser this afternoon. I removed the Ishikawa boards (with Toshiba JFETs) and installed the Tucson boards with LT1122s. Listening right now and not missing the Toshibas! A great alternative for those who don’t want to pay the ever-increasing price for the Toshiba JFETs.

Thanks Mark, for the recommendation.
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Old 28th November 2019, 02:17 PM   #2626
Mark Johnson is online now Mark Johnson  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WKCox View Post
LT1122 ... A great alternative for those who don’t want to pay the ever-increasing price for the Toshiba JFETs.
I'm very happy you like them!

They are JFET opamps, maybe that's what makes them sound so good.
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Old 30th November 2019, 07:09 PM   #2627
MEPER is online now MEPER  Denmark
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Today I decided to take out the Tucson input boards with OPA604 and try out the Norwoods (MJ-version). It was after reading the data sheet for the Harris HA5002 buffer:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/30804.pdf

Impressing specs like 1300V/us slewrate, 200mA drive capability and 110 MHz bandwidth. Seems just right to drive the Edcor…...and bandwidth good enough for audio?
I wonder if a normal opamp has a hard time driving the Edcor?

What I can say so far is that Norwoods are very good sounding. Think there is a clear improvement from Tucson. Sound stage wider and deeper and deep bas more detailed (if deep bas can be detailed). Think it handles complex music better than Tucson (more "air" and "space").

It is easy to get too excited when you have just installed something new and it seems to work…….so description very subjective…….but so far so good :-)
Will see how it performs in the "long run".
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Old 30th November 2019, 09:32 PM   #2628
twitchie is online now twitchie  Canada
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The diyAudio First Watt M2x
@MEPER, does your mu-metal go underneath the Edcor or just wrap over the top? Have you always had the shield or did you have to add it due to noise?

I have built M2 with Teabag's board but was ordering other things from the store so added M2X boards to my order.

On high sensitivity speakers (FH with Fostex FE126) I can hear 60 or 120Hz noise (don't remember - too many amps, using Sissysit and Papa original J2 now).

When I build the M2X I will wrap it but don't know if it is ok to wrap the Edcor all the way around before installing it or if the loop becomes a problem itself.
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Old 30th November 2019, 09:48 PM   #2629
MEPER is online now MEPER  Denmark
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It goes all the way round the Edcor. I think that is an advantage over just a box that covers the top. First I wrapped 3M tinned copper tape around it and op top of that the mu-metal. I did it to begin with as many reported hum pickup. I have 94 dB speakers and they are silent with ear close to the speaker units. The distortion measurements also showed that 50/100 Hz was very well dampened. I am very "hum sensitive" so I will do what it takes to remove it :-) .....the PSU is a CRCLC to get ripple down into about 1 mV or so and toroid is in the far corner of the 5U Deluxe (mono blocks) and has a band of magnetic shield around it (special double layer steel).
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Old 1st December 2019, 05:58 PM   #2630
Mark Johnson is online now Mark Johnson  United States
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Good old 6L6 reminds me that the output stage of the "Azul" headphone amp presented at Burning Amp 2019, would make a very fine daughter card IPS for the M2x amplifier. It would use the multi chip module called LH0033, first sold in 1971 (!), to implement an M2x input stage buffer, on the same daughter card form factor as all the other M2x IPS cards.

Besides offering wonderful sonics (according to the folks who listened to Azul at Burning Amp), the LH0033 offers many of the characteristics that rabid audiophiles require:
  • It is out of production
  • Vendors of New Old Stock offer it for nosebleed prices; check octopart.com . A month before Burning Amp 2019, I purchased another two LH0033s as emergency spares, and paid $25 per piece. Plus shipping.
  • It is housed in a 12-pin TO-99 circular metal can package. Audiophiles are convinced that circuits in round metal can packages sound better than in epoxy DIPs.
  • It is built in an old & exotic technology (a dozen discretes in bare die, wirebonded to a ceramic substrate), in this case called "Linear Hybrid". That's why the part number begins with LH
  • Its datasheet (attached) says that it is part of the family of Damn Fast buffers. Who dares to argue with that?
  • Its bandwidth and slew rate are enormous; ridiculously excessive for audio
You could build it as a standalone buffer, somewhat resembling Tucson. Or you could build it as the back end of a composite amplifier, strongly resembling Norwood. Or both!

I successfully implemented a 12 pin TO-99 "socket" for the LH0033 on Azul, using 0.1" breakaway pin SIPs, Mouser.com P/N 437-3108716441001101. Putting these on M2x daughter cards would let you move a single pair of (expensive!) LH0033s from one set of cards to another. You could try several different circuit designs and pick the one whose sound pleases you most.

I also exhibited a few "LH0033 emulators" at BAF. These are pin-compatible with the LH0033, but built with active production, cheap semiconductors. These let me debug the Azul motherboard without worrying that I might damage an expensive and hard-to-replace LH0033. As M2x owners will readily observe, they ALSO gave me a headphone amp with interchangeable output stages. Just like M2x but on the output not the input. More listening experiments. Oh boy!

_
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File Type: jpg LH0033_emulator_cards.jpg (412.1 KB, 256 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AN48.pdf (148.0 KB, 25 views)
File Type: pdf LH0033_datasheet.pdf (623.3 KB, 20 views)
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