It's been a little over a year since I built my Ekta Grande speakers and anything audio. Been busy building my car (Factory Five Racing 818). It's all but done so now it's time to build a pair of amplifiers. After the amplifiers I'll need probably need to build a better matching preamp.
My original plan was to buy some Class D completed boards from another DIY Audio vendor but my friend (who owns a HIFI store locally and sells some of the most known and exclusive products and brands) told my that if I really wanted to build my own I should really build a Class A amplifier, better if designed by Nelson Pass.
So about 3 weeks ago I started reading the forums and trying to see what was readily available and had the most community support. So I ordered and received a set of F5Turbov3 boards and v3 PSU boards from the DIY store.
I like to build stuff. I don't mind the learning and research. But after 3 weeks of reading virtually every post about the F5 I can tell I'll never learn enough to pick the correct components and little electrical design details. My ability is in actual execution. Through my paid work I have access to cnc's, both for wood and steel and the operators, paint booth, water jets, and mill shop, both wood and steel.
My actual planned chassis design will only use a few of these capabilities, will probably be a disappointment actually, having this kind of access, but will be a little more artistic.
I know I'm opening up myself to some criticism, but can I get a little advice and direction?
I will be building a pair of monoblocks, F5 Turbo V3. I want 100-130 WPC, so I'm assuming 48 v rails. I have been in touch with Toroidy for the transformers, 1,000va with 2-35v secondaries, each monoblock.
Heat sink USA has these serrated heatsinks with 1 1/2" long fins that I plan on lining each side of each monoblock, 5" high x 18 1/2" long. I also plan on a small fan, located in the rear, to push a little air through the chassis and the only exit would be a small gap between the chassis and the top of the heatsink on each side.
My boards arrived yesterday and I've started looking at what to buy. Power supply capacitors are my first item on the list. With a 35mm max diameter, and 8 per monoblock, I think I need to maximize each cap, Mundorf has M-Lytic AG Series Audio Grade 22,000 uF 63vdc. They are a little pricy, but is the value there? Is 176,000 uF each channel adequate? 15,000 uF caps are about a third less, but would they work?
I have not been able to find any monoblock builds that actually are shown completed and kind of match what I want to do to compare to.
All advice and info would be appreciated, planning on putting in the order with Toroidy in the next couple of days, so I don't want to start off with a mistake.
My original plan was to buy some Class D completed boards from another DIY Audio vendor but my friend (who owns a HIFI store locally and sells some of the most known and exclusive products and brands) told my that if I really wanted to build my own I should really build a Class A amplifier, better if designed by Nelson Pass.
So about 3 weeks ago I started reading the forums and trying to see what was readily available and had the most community support. So I ordered and received a set of F5Turbov3 boards and v3 PSU boards from the DIY store.
I like to build stuff. I don't mind the learning and research. But after 3 weeks of reading virtually every post about the F5 I can tell I'll never learn enough to pick the correct components and little electrical design details. My ability is in actual execution. Through my paid work I have access to cnc's, both for wood and steel and the operators, paint booth, water jets, and mill shop, both wood and steel.
My actual planned chassis design will only use a few of these capabilities, will probably be a disappointment actually, having this kind of access, but will be a little more artistic.
I know I'm opening up myself to some criticism, but can I get a little advice and direction?
I will be building a pair of monoblocks, F5 Turbo V3. I want 100-130 WPC, so I'm assuming 48 v rails. I have been in touch with Toroidy for the transformers, 1,000va with 2-35v secondaries, each monoblock.
Heat sink USA has these serrated heatsinks with 1 1/2" long fins that I plan on lining each side of each monoblock, 5" high x 18 1/2" long. I also plan on a small fan, located in the rear, to push a little air through the chassis and the only exit would be a small gap between the chassis and the top of the heatsink on each side.
My boards arrived yesterday and I've started looking at what to buy. Power supply capacitors are my first item on the list. With a 35mm max diameter, and 8 per monoblock, I think I need to maximize each cap, Mundorf has M-Lytic AG Series Audio Grade 22,000 uF 63vdc. They are a little pricy, but is the value there? Is 176,000 uF each channel adequate? 15,000 uF caps are about a third less, but would they work?
I have not been able to find any monoblock builds that actually are shown completed and kind of match what I want to do to compare to.
All advice and info would be appreciated, planning on putting in the order with Toroidy in the next couple of days, so I don't want to start off with a mistake.
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it's always good to check with Apex Jr. for available caps
computer grade caps are great solution in most cases , especially if you get them for good price
I wouldn't go bellow 66mF per rail , preferably plain C filter , no CRC ........ but then xformer and bridges must be overkill (1KW is there , though
)
computer grade caps are great solution in most cases , especially if you get them for good price
I wouldn't go bellow 66mF per rail , preferably plain C filter , no CRC ........ but then xformer and bridges must be overkill (1KW is there , though
)
Have you see this in your forum search?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/254056-f5turbo-illustrated-build-guide.html
Beautiful speakers. Very nice.
BTW- Apex Jr has 33kuF caps for around $5 each. You might have to call or email Steve to check for stock. They are approx. 1-1.5" in diameter and are 4-5" tall.
These caps have screw connections and require 1" clamps or might require them depending on your build style.
I acquired 16 of these for my F5T v2 build.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/254056-f5turbo-illustrated-build-guide.html
Beautiful speakers. Very nice.
BTW- Apex Jr has 33kuF caps for around $5 each. You might have to call or email Steve to check for stock. They are approx. 1-1.5" in diameter and are 4-5" tall.
These caps have screw connections and require 1" clamps or might require them depending on your build style.
I acquired 16 of these for my F5T v2 build.
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Is size an issue?
with 130wpc you need lots of sinks or a powerful fan
Here is mine, I'm able to bias to 145W
It has a ton of bass capability but there is also 1.1F of caps between the two monoblocks.
I would go all the up to 50V rails, it give you a bit more leeway.
With the amount of power your going after you also need a soft start and a slow charge circuit to go with it.
with 130wpc you need lots of sinks or a powerful fan
Here is mine, I'm able to bias to 145W
It has a ton of bass capability but there is also 1.1F of caps between the two monoblocks.
I would go all the up to 50V rails, it give you a bit more leeway.
With the amount of power your going after you also need a soft start and a slow charge circuit to go with it.
ZM, thanks for commenting! So bridges to the PSU and break off the diode section? Is it not worth the money for the Mundorf caps?it's always good to check with Apex Jr. for available caps
computer grade caps are great solution in most cases , especially if you get them for good price
I wouldn't go bellow 66mF per rail , preferably plain C filter , no CRC ........ but then xformer and bridges must be overkill (1KW is there , though
I already added a water to air intercooler! And it doesn't look to shabby eitherThat 818 is going to need updates , especially if running stock running gear ..
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I have read the entire thread, thanks!
Thanks for jumping in. I really want to keep the project clean and somewhat to the boards. So I would rather buy around how the boards are designed. Cost is always a variable, but not the priority. Any particular spec that you think I should be looking for?
Glad you like the speakers, a lot of time to get wood prepped to take an automotive quality paint job.
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Isn't size always an issueIs size an issue?
with 130wpc you need lots of sinks or a powerful fan
Here is mine, I'm able to bias to 145W
It has a ton of bass capability but there is also 1.1F of caps between the two monoblocks.
I would go all the up to 50V rails, it give you a bit more leeway.
With the amount of power your going after you also need a soft start and a slow charge circuit to go with it.
First off though, amazing looking amps! You should be proud.
I'm trying for a slim/sexy chassis as much as possible. I might need to scale up my overall size to accept more heatsinks, so your input would be appreciated.
What sizes are your sinks? And supplier? How well do your amps hold temp?
What size transformer and and what voltage for your secondaries?
I'm not familiar with a slow charge circuit.
What was the determining factor for your volume of capacitance? As an example Pass Labs XA160 monoblock has 150kuF. I thought if I used 176kuF I would be doing great!
Thanks again for your comments.
Isn't size always an issue
First off though, amazing looking amps! You should be proud.
I'm trying for a slim/sexy chassis as much as possible. I might need to scale up my overall size to accept more heatsinks, so your input would be appreciated.
What sizes are your sinks? And supplier? How well do your amps hold temp?
What size transformer and and what voltage for your secondaries?
I'm not familiar with a slow charge circuit.
What was the determining factor for your volume of capacitance? As an example Pass Labs XA160 monoblock has 150kuF. I thought if I used 176kuF I would be doing great!
Thanks again for your comments.
Thanks for the compliment. They sound great too!
Well unless you turn your heatsinks in and create a tunnel for the fan to blow through, you're going to need bigger heatsinks.
I'm using heatsink USA's largest ones , the 3" fins and 10" wide and 10" long X 4!
At 145w bias its able to hold about 20C above ambient.
I'm using a 1400va trafo with 39v secondaries for a 51v rail.
A slow charge circuit needs to be used to slowly charge the cap bank. When you use such massive amounts of caps a soft start will not be able to handle the in rush. Thus a slow charge circuit needs to be used after the transformer in order to limit the voltage and current spike from the caps on turn on. This is a must.... It tried just using a soft start and I kept blowing fuses, thermistors, and resistors and even fusing relays.....
I came up with an appx amount of caps from experience building the f5. When I used the stock amount I found that it didn't give me enough bass and bass control. When I doubled it it had much more bass depth and control.
Point of dimishing return for caps? I haven't found it yet.
When BigE finally decides to finish his amp with the cap bank he says is enough, and races it with mine and the bass and control and slam is the same, then I'll concede.... But until then
I'm sticking with what I have
I like the mundorf's. You can save $ by just using them as the final caps in the bank.
Thanks for the information. Back to the drawing board on how I planned for these to look. But I think I have an idea that will work. I would rather not have a fan so this will be better in the end.Thanks for the compliment. They sound great too!
Well unless you turn your heatsinks in and create a tunnel for the fan to blow through, you're going to need bigger heatsinks.
I'm using heatsink USA's largest ones , the 3" fins and 10" wide and 10" long X 4!
At 145w bias its able to hold about 20C above ambient.
I'm using a 1400va trafo with 39v secondaries for a 51v rail.
A slow charge circuit needs to be used to slowly charge the cap bank. When you use such massive amounts of caps a soft start will not be able to handle the in rush. Thus a slow charge circuit needs to be used after the transformer in order to limit the voltage and current spike from the caps on turn on. This is a must.... It tried just using a soft start and I kept blowing fuses, thermistors, and resistors and even fusing relays.....
I came up with an appx amount of caps from experience building the f5. When I used the stock amount I found that it didn't give me enough bass and bass control. When I doubled it it had much more bass depth and control.
Point of dimishing return for caps? I haven't found it yet.
When BigE finally decides to finish his amp with the cap bank he says is enough, and races it with mine and the bass and control and slam is the same, then I'll concede.... But until then
I'm sticking with what I have
Based on your stated capacitance I'm assuming 68,000uF each? Any advise on what worked for you? What about Kendeil?
I see you and BigE are both in the same city, a shoutout is possible!
The ones I used, as you see in the pics are 47000uF 63V Kendeils. There are 4 more in the amp box, for a total of 12 per mono.
If you are only planning to use 40V rails you can get away with 50V versions they would be cheaper.
I can't comment on how different caps would compare to the Kendeils as I haven't tried others,,,, too expensive to try. But I can tell you the end result is quite impressive.
Thanks for the reply!The ones I used, as you see in the pics are 47000uF 63V Kendeils. There are 4 more in the amp box, for a total of 12 per mono.
If you are only planning to use 40V rails you can get away with 50V versions they would be cheaper.
I can't comment on how different caps would compare to the Kendeils as I haven't tried others,,,, too expensive to try. But I can tell you the end result is quite impressive.
I was planning around 48v rails, but to be safe I'll buy +63v caps. Still looking.
Was it just physical space of layout that you put some of the caps in the other chassis?
My heat sinks arrive next week, so I can get started on the chassis.
First sketch
Here is my first outline of the pair of monoblocks. The inside dimension of the chassis I'll be building is 10 3/8" (264mm) wide x 18 1/2" (470mm) deep x 11" (280mm) tall. The heatsinks are from Heatsink USA and the tracking shows delivery Monday. I'll be ganging up 36 pcs x 5" (127mm) tall of the 4.600" (117mm) serrated heatsinks.
All the boards are from the DIY store.
To focus on the chassis size/building first I have roughly decided on Plitron 1.5k trans, 38v secondaries, 4ea Rifa 63v, 82,000uF caps, and 8 ea Mundof AG 63v, 15,000uF caps per monoblock, but not ordered yet. My vampire speaker connectors, Cardas balanced inputs, and IEC sockets are in so I can get the aluminum work out of the way first.
I need to get soft start and speaker protection boards too (not shown) I should have plenty of room.
I'm on a crash course to amp building so all guidance is appreciated!
Here is my first outline of the pair of monoblocks. The inside dimension of the chassis I'll be building is 10 3/8" (264mm) wide x 18 1/2" (470mm) deep x 11" (280mm) tall. The heatsinks are from Heatsink USA and the tracking shows delivery Monday. I'll be ganging up 36 pcs x 5" (127mm) tall of the 4.600" (117mm) serrated heatsinks.
All the boards are from the DIY store.
To focus on the chassis size/building first I have roughly decided on Plitron 1.5k trans, 38v secondaries, 4ea Rifa 63v, 82,000uF caps, and 8 ea Mundof AG 63v, 15,000uF caps per monoblock, but not ordered yet. My vampire speaker connectors, Cardas balanced inputs, and IEC sockets are in so I can get the aluminum work out of the way first.
I need to get soft start and speaker protection boards too (not shown) I should have plenty of room.
I'm on a crash course to amp building so all guidance is appreciated!
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