F6 Amplifier

Official Court Jester
Joined 2003
Paid Member
look at FIG.4B , for instance

Input signal Vi is shown as positive starting voltage signal at base of Q1
that became negative starting Voltage signal on node 102

which means rising current signal through R4

which means rising voltage signal across R4
which means positive starting voltage signal for Q3 base
which means negative starting voltage signal at base of Q2

which means Q1 and Q2 are fed with antiphase signals on respective gates

which is exactly shown on FIG.3B

guyz will hear only difference between upper and lower Jfet modulation , having same-phase connected secondaris

which isn't even good for nulling adventures , what demands dynamic condition , not silent ones
 
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look at FIG.4B , for instance

Input signal Vi is shown as positive starting
that became negative starting V on node 102

which means rising current signal through R4

which means rising voltage signal across R4
which means positive starting voltage signal for Q3 base
which means negative starting voltage signal at gate of Q2

which means Q1 and Q2 are fed with antiphase signals on respective gates

which is exactly shown on FIG.3B
Please use the Aleph Current Source schematic as your example like I did. And goto Post #306; Mr. Pass said that in-phase drive worked; but ..
 
Official Court Jester
Joined 2003
Paid Member
FIG.4B is Aleph CCS ;

same as FIG.1 , FIG.2 , FIG.3 , FIG.4A , FIG.4B , FIG.5

Pa's post #306 :

Really, it was an honest mistake. The only mystery is how the circuit
worked so well that way...

:D


..... what's that having with Aleph CCS patent ?

he obviously joked ..... :rofl:



besides that , with your misunderstanding of ALeph CCS patent ,you are implying that he deliberately twisted facts in his own patent , with intention of preventing scamers ?

which I have some difficulties to believe .....
 
FIG.4B is Aleph CCS ;

same as FIG.1 , FIG.2 , FIG.3 , FIG.4A , FIG.4B , FIG.5

Pa's post #306 :




..... what's that having with Aleph CCS patent ?

he obviously joked ..... :rofl:


besides that , with your misunderstanding of ALeph CCS patent ,you are implying that he deliberately twisted facts in his own patent , with intention of preventing scamers ?

which I have some difficulties to believe .....
I have a great respect for Mr. Pass, you, and the rest of DIYers. Fortunately, I am not implying anything.
 
F6 Decoded

I have a great respect for Mr. Pass, you, and the rest of DIYers. Fortunately, I am not implying anything.


I clearly misunderstood the invention US 5,710,522, and thus misinterpreted the operation of the Aleph Current Source. %7#* happens said Arnold's Predator. My apologies to y'all for inadvertently causing negative emotions, frustration and other ill effects. But; my screwup has a silver lining and I am happy to report its upside:
  • The drive signals to the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6 are out of phase like we've come to know and practice [e.g. by buzzforb, lhquam etc..]. This correct phasing is a fact, and is exactly like that in the invention US 5,710,522, and the Aleph Current Source. The upper output JFET in Conceptual F6 is a modulated current source load to the lower output JFET operating as the sole gain device. It follows from this analogy that Conceptual F6 is US 5,710,522; and in personal opinion, a simple and brilliant development.
  • The in-phase signal drive to the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6 is not US 5,710,522 or the Aleph Current Source. There is absolutely no relationship or connection between US 5,710,522 and the in-phase signal drives to the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6. But; is there a reason which will prevent you and/or I from driving the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6 with in-phase signals? Absolutely not. buzzforb: thank you for your ongoing coaching to stop speculating and test instead my hypotheses by actual diy building. I will gladly do this experiment and report my findings in a couple of days. But, buzzforb, lhquam and others may wish to race me to the answer!
 
Official Court Jester
Joined 2003
Paid Member
I clearly misunderstood the invention US 5,710,522, and thus misinterpreted the operation of the Aleph Current Source. %7#* happens said Arnold's Predator. My apologies to y'all for inadvertently causing negative emotions, frustration and other ill effects. .......


no negative emotions , I was just somewhat tired showing you that you're splittin' wrong hair :clown:


.....
[*]The drive signals to the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6 are out of phase like we've come to know and practice [e.g. by buzzforb, lhquam etc..]. This correct phasing is a fact, and is exactly like that in the invention US 5,710,522, and the Aleph Current Source. The upper output JFET in Conceptual F6 is a modulated current source load to the lower output JFET operating as the sole gain device. It follows from this analogy that Conceptual F6 is US 5,710,522; and in personal opinion, a simple and brilliant development.
.........

well , if you insist on looking at upper Jfet as CS ;
that's one way of observing the reality (sez that man who sez - gimme support point and I would move the Earth) ;
but - contrary to Aleph CCS , F6's "CS" have no any connection with current going to load , which is ,naive me , pretty much important virtue of said Aleph CCS


.......
[*]The in-phase signal drive to the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6 is not US 5,710,522 or the Aleph Current Source. There is absolutely no relationship or connection between US 5,710,522 and the in-phase signal drives to the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6. But; is there a reason which will prevent you and/or I from driving the gates of the output JFETs in Conceptual F6 with in-phase signals? Absolutely not. buzzforb: thank you for your ongoing coaching to stop speculating and test instead my hypotheses by actual diy building. I will gladly do this experiment and report my findings in a couple of days. But, buzzforb, lhquam and others may wish to race me to the answer!
.......

some of possible variations are already shown here :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/216616-f6-amplifier-7.html#post3102867
but , without severe limitation of upper Jfet's modulation , you can hardly have any decent output ; and even then , efficiency of amplifier will be simply awful ; depending of said modulation limitation/attenuation , you'll have anything between total silencer and simple CCS loaded amp


so - we are here brainstorming about amp ; nothing more , nothing less
but , this isn't 42 chase

so - next time , contemplating about some theorem , please put some things in form of question , not fact ...... just because that way you're misleading ppl with lesser knowledge and experience

don't be afraid to be dumb ......... I'm exactly that at least 10 times/day

:cheers:
 
Here is F6 Conceptual Option 5. This might nearly double the open-loop gain.

EWE! I forgot about number two.
Never mind. I am going for uber low distortion, then magic SE trick. All will have to wait for completion of M2 bastardo. Nothing like a good fight.
 

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Using screws into standoffs for power and output connections and a PCB header for the input connector, I can completely tear down, modify, and reconnect in about 4 minutes plus the modification time. No soldering required, except for the PCB mods, of course.

No sense of adventure:D
Mine is torn down and off heatsink. Will build back and compare with few changes. Are you sure that interwinding C is cause of assymetry?
 
...some of possible variations are already shown here :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/216616-f6-amplifier-7.html#post3102867
but , without severe limitation of upper Jfet's modulation , you can hardly have any decent output ; and even then , efficiency of amplifier will be simply awful ; depending of said modulation limitation/attenuation , you'll have anything between total silencer and simple CCS loaded amp...:

Don't take it bad, Zen Mod, though you might be a little bit responsible of Antoinel barking up the wrong tree cause in phase driving should'nt seriously be contemplated like in the post you point at.:)
 
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Official Court Jester
Joined 2003
Paid Member
that was my hysteric attempt to make sense from Pa's repeatedly confirmed but still incorrect schmts :rofl:

catch is in fact that I'm/we are often thinking too much about hidden agenda behind his decisions , putting unnecessary burden on his shoulders
there is no reason that he must be serious and uber-responsible all the time ......

:devilr:

conclusion - there is nothing wrong with good olde quasi push-pull ....

http://youtu.be/VXjb0aI57tQ
 
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