To Mr Nelson Pass, XA160.5 with Wilson Sashas?

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Dear Mr Pass,

If you could perhaps answer a couple of questions I have, I would be incredibly grateful. I am about to buy my first ever 'proper' hifi, and have been researching for a long long time. I am finally about to make the plunge, and was wondering if you think your XA160.5 amplifiers offer enough power to drive Wilson's Sasha speakers, which are apparently quite demanding because of a "1.8 ohm impedance dip around 92Hz".

P.S. I am also interested in Mcintosh MC2301 hybrid 300 watt tube amplifiers, spec sheet here http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/downloads/product_downloads/MC2301_1.pdf and I was wondering if you could offer me some impartial advice, though I obviously understand your position is difficult because you own Pass Labs. It would be incredibly kind of you.
Do you think these tube amps can drive Wilson Sashas adequately, indeed awesomely, based on the specs of the speakers and amps? A man with your considerable experience must have a pretty good idea based on spec sheets. I was told the issue is that tube amps have lower current, which may present problems with the Sashas 1.8ohm impedance dip, but the MC2301s are hybrids as I understand it, and high wattage, so am I safe to consider them? P.S. I like tight, punchy bass!

If anyone else can chime in with any advice, that would also be fantastic!

Many thanks!

Keyser
 
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Official Court Jester
Joined 2003
Paid Member
who am I to dispute Mighty Papa ..... :clown:

anyway - I'm still not able to see what's charming in insane dropouts .......

every problematic ( impedance-vise ) speaker I have opportunity to hear was just another fifi-speaker ( NB - not that I hear them in quantity ..... I'm not Hi End expert in any meaning ) ......

give me A7 or KH any day , any time .....

btw. 08.00 , lurking at DIyA .... nice way for starting a day

:cheers:
 
The one and only
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Do you think these tube amps can drive Wilson Sashas adequately, indeed awesomely, based on the specs of the speakers and amps?

I have no way of saying, however if you are spending this
much money on speakers and amplifiers, you owe yourself
a listen first, and any dealer trying to make a sale this
large should be able to arrange a demo.

:cool:
 
I have no way of saying, however if you are spending this
much money on speakers and amplifiers, you owe yourself
a listen first, and any dealer trying to make a sale this
large should be able to arrange a demo.

:cool:

Thanks Nelson, and you're obviously right, but the problem is I'm in the UK, and finding a dealer who sells both Wilson and Mcintosh gear is oddly proving a nightmare.

Online I've not come across anyone who's tried this pairing of equipment, I guess I just hoped the specs might offer something an insight. One guy, actually who works at Wilson, said he drove the Sashas very nicely with a 75 wpc Mcintosh MC 275 stereo tube amp, but that the grip on the bass wasn't the same as with a decent solid state amp. Obviously the MC2301's 300 watts per channel is a fair increase on 75, but there are so many other factors that are meaningless to a person with my limited understanding!

:cool:
 
Dear Nelson, and anyone else who might be able to help,

I think perhaps crucially, I found the following information about the Wilson Sashas in a Hifi Critic review.

"A quick back of envelope calculation shows that 115dB maximum sound level at lm (on axis peak program - pretty well the aural limit for a domestic listening room, and equivalent to 11OdB for a stereo pair at the listening location) will need 200W/ch (40 volts RMS), and I do not see the need for any more. This requires a potential momentary peak current draw of 32A. Rarely can even the largest valve amplifiers deliver more than 15A peak so here is a lesson. For best bass at higher volume levels with Sasha, as potentially offered by this class of loudspeaker, choose a low impedance amplifier and cable, ideally less than 0.3ohm in total with a 25A peak rating for 100W and a 35A peak rating for 200W nominal (8ohm) rating."

I have also been told by Mcintosh that the MC2301 tube amps output a fairly high current of almost 20 amps. I am not technically versed, but I wonder if this information, coupled with the quote above, might offer some further insight into the question of whether or not the Sashas and the MC2301s would make good mates?

The Hifi Critic review seems to say that 25/35 amps is ideal, so I'm not sure if the MC2301's 20 amps will cut it. As I said though, this technical stuff is pretty meaningless to me, so any help, from anyone, would be much appreciated,

I should add that a tight, punchy bass is important to me, so I'm not sure if tubes will let me down in this respect,

Best wishes,

Keyser
 
Official Court Jester
Joined 2003
Paid Member
you really need a demo ;

technical facts and other's opinion can give you only basic directions , but final judgment must be reserved for listening test ......

in any case - your ears are in command , not anyone else's

so - as Papa sez :

however if you are spending this
much money on speakers and amplifiers, you owe yourself
a listen first, and any dealer trying to make a sale this
large should be able to arrange a demo.
 
that's my Manu !

Those .pdfs appear to be regarding the XA160, not the XA160.5. Pass mentions the improvements of the XA.5 over the earlier XA series:

The newly introduced XA.5 series incorporates all the improvements of the new X.5 series (see below) and also operate pure Class A. The distortion is even lower, the control is even better.

More importantly, the XA.5 amplifiers have tremendously larger output current capacity over their corresponding XA models – more than five times the current – which is more than 25 times the power into very low impedance loads. Very difficult loudspeakers are now very appropriate loads for XA.5’s.

Sonically the result is:

Greater power and control – No matter what your loudspeaker, the X.5 and XA.5 power amplifiers have the power and stability essential to deliver the music without strain. They have the dynamic range to do justice to the 24 bit recordings of the 21st Century and the elegance to retrieve the micro dynamics offered by the most sensitive loudspeakers. This simplicity and power moves easily from total silence to explosive transients with ease and without information loss.

So if the review was that good for the XA160, then the XA160.5 should be even better.
 
Dear Nelson,

Sorry to be picky, but just so I'm clear, was this original comment about the XA160.5s and the MC2301s? Or just the XA160.5s? As I said, I really value your opinion here!

Thanks mate,

Keyser

Dear Keyser,

I use Sasha with a pair of XA100.5 and he has more power than needed for Sasha's. The result is absolutely fabulous, I'm just waiting from Pass a preamp as good as serie XA. The XP20 is a very, very good preamp, but as it will be the last preamp I will buy, I would like something exceptionnal, as the XA100.5 is and Sasha too.

Many thanks to Mr Pass and his team for the great gear they build.:):)

Jean-Paul
 
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