Dr. pass,
I have a question for you and that is why so many hifi amps including some of yours are designed with such high power outputs given that most modern speakers are efficient and only require say 50 watts at most to deliver a reasonable level of sound?
I feel that there might be some good reasons for this, can you explain this?
I have a question for you and that is why so many hifi amps including some of yours are designed with such high power outputs given that most modern speakers are efficient and only require say 50 watts at most to deliver a reasonable level of sound?
I feel that there might be some good reasons for this, can you explain this?
Professor smith
If you are going to claim professorial status, then IMO you should reveal your true identity especially if you intend to correspond with a public figure and draw attention to his professional status in such a public fashion. To add insult to injury, you have misspelled his name.
w
If you are going to claim professorial status, then IMO you should reveal your true identity especially if you intend to correspond with a public figure and draw attention to his professional status in such a public fashion. To add insult to injury, you have misspelled his name.
w
It's about peak to average levels. If your listening level is 1W average, and there is a peak 20 dB above average, that's 100W needed. A 50W amp would be severely clipped trying to keep up.
Not that most speakers can handle 110 dB peaks, but at least the distortion won't be from your amp if you have plenty of power. Not to mention less chance of damaging your tweeters with the extra high frequency energy produced by clipping.
[rant] Much popular music is terribly compressed. Watching the levels on many songs by major pop names like Eric Clapton and The Rolling Stones and many others' recent recordings, the meters seem to hang between 0 db (clipping) and -2 dB rarely venturing south. If that's your musical preference, you can use a 50W amp quite comfortably because there won't really be any peaks to worry about. Take a look at the levels of your recording before thinking that the system sounds bad. [/rant]
Not that most speakers can handle 110 dB peaks, but at least the distortion won't be from your amp if you have plenty of power. Not to mention less chance of damaging your tweeters with the extra high frequency energy produced by clipping.
[rant] Much popular music is terribly compressed. Watching the levels on many songs by major pop names like Eric Clapton and The Rolling Stones and many others' recent recordings, the meters seem to hang between 0 db (clipping) and -2 dB rarely venturing south. If that's your musical preference, you can use a 50W amp quite comfortably because there won't really be any peaks to worry about. Take a look at the levels of your recording before thinking that the system sounds bad. [/rant]
I sell what people want. Many of them
want more power. Of those, some need it, some might think
they need it later if not now, and some don't need it.
Pro!
Saw that Mr. Smith?
Even to ask, there is a lot to know before we do.
there's no replacement for displacement.....be it litres or watts...
Attachments
Dr. pass,
According to me if we want to provoke our good Papa,
we call him a guru rather, than for a doctor.
Wacky Gyuri
and I am not a doctor, although I play one on TV.
Not sure, Nelson...
Doctor is the higher degree in universities..
A master + 3 years to sustain an original research thesis..
An engineer that has a long practice can undoubtly be
granted a doctor degree based on his career track...
His first name would be Zacchary
and I am not a doctor, although I play one on TV.
To answer the question, I sell what people want. Many of them
want more power. Of those, some need it, some might think
they need it later if not now, and some don't need it.
I must admit that isn't the answer I was looking for. Can you offer any technical reasons as to the advantage of using such high power in domestic settings?
I want more power! Not ALL speakers are that efficient. Mine that i Love are only 84db @1w If I recall correctly so in doing the math i get this. adding every 3 db doubles the power and not taking into consideration power compression.
84db at 1watt
87 @ 2w
90 @ 4w
93 @ 8w
96 @ 16w
99 @ 32w watts and here is where the power comes in
102 @ 64w
105 @ 128w the avg concert level
108 256
111 512w
114 1024
117 2048
120 @ 4096 The avg dance club music level. of course my speakers would have blown up long ago!
105-108 is not uncommon in my living room for peaks! My clip lights come on at .1% at about 220 watts and yes i see them flash often. a 50 or a 100 watt amplifier will not cut it for me! and movie special FX that are are extremely bass heavy and very dynamic would cause a measly 50 watt amp to beg for mercy! (I tried to watch a movie once using my 40w Zen Lites and it just wasn't going to happen).
AND not all speakers have amp friendly Impedance curves! I know that my speakers have dips in spots down around 2 ohms or less. asking a 50 watt amp to try and deliver any sort of volume causes severe tonal compression at frequencies where the impedance dips. most 50 watt amps just don't have the current capability.
So while the first watt is most important, and while most of the time the amp will be simply cruising along. having the power to pass is nice! Pun's intended(albeit badly)
Zc
84db at 1watt
87 @ 2w
90 @ 4w
93 @ 8w
96 @ 16w
99 @ 32w watts and here is where the power comes in
102 @ 64w
105 @ 128w the avg concert level
108 256
111 512w
114 1024
117 2048
120 @ 4096 The avg dance club music level. of course my speakers would have blown up long ago!
105-108 is not uncommon in my living room for peaks! My clip lights come on at .1% at about 220 watts and yes i see them flash often. a 50 or a 100 watt amplifier will not cut it for me! and movie special FX that are are extremely bass heavy and very dynamic would cause a measly 50 watt amp to beg for mercy! (I tried to watch a movie once using my 40w Zen Lites and it just wasn't going to happen).
AND not all speakers have amp friendly Impedance curves! I know that my speakers have dips in spots down around 2 ohms or less. asking a 50 watt amp to try and deliver any sort of volume causes severe tonal compression at frequencies where the impedance dips. most 50 watt amps just don't have the current capability.
So while the first watt is most important, and while most of the time the amp will be simply cruising along. having the power to pass is nice! Pun's intended(albeit badly)
Zc
Can you offer any technical reasons as to the advantage of using such high power in domestic settings?
If one can afford large, high priced commercial amplifiers such as those sold by Pass Labs then one can afford to split the amp into several smaller amplifiers and place them immediately adjacent to the loudspeaker drive units, which is their optimium technical location.
However, driven by tradition, dogma, ignorance and the opinion of 'magazine / internet audiophile gurus' the vast majority of the buying public still focus upon a very large single box amplifier. The more money they have, the bigger they want it.
So companies such as Pass Labs then have two choices; Option 1 is to go against the flow and spend disproportionately large amounts of time and money to educate customers as to the 'better' option, or Option 2 is to say "OK, you think you want a really big powerful amplifier, so here it is...".
Commercial common sense suggests Option 2, which is the chosen course of Pass Labs, Krell, Goldmund, Rowland, etc.,etc..
So Mr. Smith, the conclusion is that it has nothing to do with needing power and everything to do with customer psychology and commercial common sense.
I think, a shoreless debate started again here.
About a totally subjective things.
These for an extra so much subjective, influenced because of one's momentary mood by the fact that the same person has an opinion about this differently. Or that is daytime, or in the evening. One fullrange or a brutal multiway. Jazz or hard-rock. Madrigal or 5. Symphony. And so on! I am so with this at least.
I try all kinds because of this. It is possible to like all systems for something.
I would not say even it, that withdrawing the communist system, an apology please.
This is a money matter of course.
On the other hand good fun.
Otherwise we know that Holly Gral does not exist, but because of that yet good thing to look for this.
Wacky Gyuri
About a totally subjective things.
These for an extra so much subjective, influenced because of one's momentary mood by the fact that the same person has an opinion about this differently. Or that is daytime, or in the evening. One fullrange or a brutal multiway. Jazz or hard-rock. Madrigal or 5. Symphony. And so on! I am so with this at least.
I try all kinds because of this. It is possible to like all systems for something.
I would not say even it, that withdrawing the communist system, an apology please.
This is a money matter of course.
On the other hand good fun.
Otherwise we know that Holly Gral does not exist, but because of that yet good thing to look for this.
Wacky Gyuri
Now you're becoming worse than meare you sure that you can understand any technical reason ?...
Leave the poor guy alone, it's not the first time he is playing tough by using stupid provocations
Apart from the concept of adequate power as measured,
amplifiers of different sizes typically have a different sound.
As an example, it is my experience that our 3 ohm speaker
is much happier with our 100 watt Class A monoblocs than
with the 30 watt Class A stereo amp, even when you are only
running well within the capabilities of the 30 watt.
amplifiers of different sizes typically have a different sound.
As an example, it is my experience that our 3 ohm speaker
is much happier with our 100 watt Class A monoblocs than
with the 30 watt Class A stereo amp, even when you are only
running well within the capabilities of the 30 watt.
Apart from the concept of adequate power as measured,
amplifiers of different sizes typically have a different sound.
As an example, it is my experience that our 3 ohm speaker
is much happier with our 100 watt Class A monoblocs than
with the 30 watt Class A stereo amp, even when you are only
running well within the capabilities of the 30 watt.
why is that?
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