Yes, it is.
A testament to its outstanding design is that it's still receiving rave reviews after all these years. I've had mine for only 3 or 4 months and have been enjoying sonic bliss ever since.
It's so good, I can now really hear the weak links in my system that need upgrading.
First up? New speakers... But I've been driving myself crazy trying to figure out what drivers, in my price range, will work best. And I go back and forth between coaxial or two way. At least I've ruled out OB. They are too big for my family room.
A testament to its outstanding design is that it's still receiving rave reviews after all these years. I've had mine for only 3 or 4 months and have been enjoying sonic bliss ever since.
It's so good, I can now really hear the weak links in my system that need upgrading.
First up? New speakers... But I've been driving myself crazy trying to figure out what drivers, in my price range, will work best. And I go back and forth between coaxial or two way. At least I've ruled out OB. They are too big for my family room.
Yes, it is.
A testament to its outstanding design is that it's still receiving rave reviews after all these years. I've had mine for only 3 or 4 months and have been enjoying sonic bliss ever since.
It's so good, I can now really hear the weak links in my system that need upgrading.
First up? New speakers... But I've been driving myself crazy trying to figure out what drivers, in my price range, will work best. And I go back and forth between coaxial or two way. At least I've ruled out OB. They are too big for my family room.
I thought J2 got retired like M2
.
You won't see a schematic until it's about of production. Papa is very generous with us but he doesn't sabotage his own sales. [emoji6] I believe the closest thing to a J2 at this time is the Babelfish.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
From post #20 of this thread:
I've been clear on this - the schematics of the J2 will be
released when production ceases. I'm tired of the
commercial clones using my trademarks, claiming to be
accurate reproductions.
In the meantime, you should have enough smarts to cobble
together your own versions based on the simplified
schematics. Much more fun that way.
I can't see any reason for Papa to pull the plug on such a successful design when it is clearly one of the best amps available in the market today. If he were to do that, the IP thief from Asia who sells fake First Watt products wouldn't have any competition!
Babelfish is sort of family name of gadgets ....... mostly unnecessary complicated iterations of Papa's .
so , one which is known as Babelfish around , is in fact Babelsfish J - my iteration of Aleph J
there was also Babelfish J2 , developing thread on Baby DiyA , but I pulled back all (even early) schematics .... when I realized that I'm close to original , from logical reasons
Babelfish is sort of family name of gadgets ....... mostly unnecessary complicated iterations of Papa's .
so , one which is known as Babelfish around , is in fact Babelsfish J - my iteration of Aleph J
there was also Babelfish J2 , developing thread on Baby DiyA , but I pulled back all (even early) schematics .... when I realized that I'm close to original , from logical reasons
Thanks for fixing my misstatement ZM [emoji5][emoji106]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First off, a schematic will only be for entertainment purposes since the device that is the heart of the amplifier will be very hard to get. I had some from the group buy many years ago but sold them to Peter Daniel. I don't think he has ever used them. The company no longer exists so one would have to find a substitute but with a substitute would you hear what a J2 can do? I would doubt it.
Second, and the real reason for my post: I got the first stage of my mono J2 done - one channel is using the power supply that came with the amplifier and the other a refinement of the standard supply which will be used in the other amp when I spend the money to get the parts. Might take a few months.
The "refined" supply consists of an ANTEK transformer since PLITRON has such a high minimum order it was out of the question. 300 VA and 18/18 volts same specification as the OEM. The ANTEK is larger in size than the PLITRON and has much larger wires out of the secondary. If I could afford the freight I would use TOROIDYs but the ANTEKs are just fine.
I am using the STTH6110TVs as rectifiers going to a 33mF cap of low esr then to the LUNDAHL LL2733 with the coils in parallel and then to a EPCOS 100mF large can capacitor (8mR ERS) and then to the circuit. I did not use any bleeders since I was worried I might be getting close to the limit with the chokes. As it turns out the chokes hardly get warm so that is not really a concern. The rectifiers are mounted on the other heatsink. I will post a picture and you will see there is no room left for anything else in the box. The box has become much heavier as you would expect.
The circuit, other than a change in the feedback resistor, is as it was when delivered. I am using some old two watts AB carbon comps, baked an "shellacked" - they are of the same measured value. Both amps use this same resistor.
I might eventually wire them in the configuration where one coil is in the positive line and the other in the negative. Whether this would have any effect with a power amplifier or any effect at all anywhere is a bit of a mystery. I have read no conclusive comments. Being a lazy fellow this might never be tried.
These amps are used to drive a 12 inches woofer (B&C) in a round horn - approx 100 to 500 Hz. Needless to say both amplifiers in mono are punchier but the new supply (even with the new caps still settling in) has greater energy and there is a "burr" missing that is heard in the other amplifier.
I should add that the thermistors are placed after the power switch and there is a second switch to bypass them after turn on. I am using two in series since I can switch them out and figured that would make a little less wear and tear on the rectifiers.
Thinking about trying choke input on the second amp as a trial. Will require more voltage from the transformer of course
I think there is no question the chokes make a useful improvement.
I think the big advantage of mono amplifiers, if used in a system where everything is mono, is a sense of spaciousness that I have never achieved any other way. The J2s were the only stereo amps in my system. Even John Broskie talks about this effect in one of his recent essays. He relays that David Manley had made the same observation many years ago and had no explanation for why.
His conclusion, and about the only conclusion one could make, is that there is merit to keeping the grounds separate from source to speaker.
Before making the change to First Watt amplifiers I was using GAINCLONES - all were mono amplifiers. Even though the sound quality of the FWs surpassed the GAINCLONES I have been trying for years to figure out why there was a diminution of spaciousness - not to say that the FW amps were not spacious but there was something missing. I had long suspected that there is something about keeping the channels completely separate and had plotted my mono J2 from almost the first day I got them. I had been collecting the parts for the last few months. When Broskie's article was published that was the impetus I needed to DO SOMETHING.
Now I realize there will be many who will take that as EVIDENCE I am hearing what I read. Kind of like Laurie Anderson's piece on reading the cereal box while eating the cereal - she said you realized you are reading what you're eating. Very amusing. One can never be too sure.
Don't know if Ing. Pass has any intention of ever offering the J2 in mono form but I think there could be interest. Of course, on could buy two and disconnect one channel and have a spare, and rare, output devices. Though these devices do seem to be very rugged.
Some had said when I wrote that I was going to do this I might lose the Pass sound. I can assure you the essential sound of the amps remain. The only discontinuities I hear are those mentioned - a little more energy and the lack of the last bit of edge. No one will miss that and that big cap does something that I wonder if the small caps could ever achieve in this frequency range. I will never know since I am not going to change them out. As usual with me I never noticed the burr until it was missing and easier still to hear with the other channel available to compare.
So again I must confess and apologize for my apostasy of using the fellow in Thailand's clone/plagiarized case. This case made it easy to make this transition. One important difference is that the Thai faceplate is much thinner than the FIRST WATT's and is a rather ugly grey color. Like it was painted instead of anodized. All of the holes are exactly the same. What can I say? I am grateful the thing exists. Mr. Pass is not in the business of selling boxes, if he was I would have got the real thing.
In closing I must give my heartfelt thanks and gratitude to the incomparable ZEN MOD for his guidance, counsel and PATIENCE in helping me through both the conceptual and building process. Nothing like having a Master help them when you make stupid mistakes. A Master points one in the right direction without making you feel even stupider than you already did after reporting a problem. I tell ZM he possesses the same spirit as our beloved Nelson Pass.
We are lucky to have them both!
Second, and the real reason for my post: I got the first stage of my mono J2 done - one channel is using the power supply that came with the amplifier and the other a refinement of the standard supply which will be used in the other amp when I spend the money to get the parts. Might take a few months.
The "refined" supply consists of an ANTEK transformer since PLITRON has such a high minimum order it was out of the question. 300 VA and 18/18 volts same specification as the OEM. The ANTEK is larger in size than the PLITRON and has much larger wires out of the secondary. If I could afford the freight I would use TOROIDYs but the ANTEKs are just fine.
I am using the STTH6110TVs as rectifiers going to a 33mF cap of low esr then to the LUNDAHL LL2733 with the coils in parallel and then to a EPCOS 100mF large can capacitor (8mR ERS) and then to the circuit. I did not use any bleeders since I was worried I might be getting close to the limit with the chokes. As it turns out the chokes hardly get warm so that is not really a concern. The rectifiers are mounted on the other heatsink. I will post a picture and you will see there is no room left for anything else in the box. The box has become much heavier as you would expect.
The circuit, other than a change in the feedback resistor, is as it was when delivered. I am using some old two watts AB carbon comps, baked an "shellacked" - they are of the same measured value. Both amps use this same resistor.
I might eventually wire them in the configuration where one coil is in the positive line and the other in the negative. Whether this would have any effect with a power amplifier or any effect at all anywhere is a bit of a mystery. I have read no conclusive comments. Being a lazy fellow this might never be tried.
These amps are used to drive a 12 inches woofer (B&C) in a round horn - approx 100 to 500 Hz. Needless to say both amplifiers in mono are punchier but the new supply (even with the new caps still settling in) has greater energy and there is a "burr" missing that is heard in the other amplifier.
I should add that the thermistors are placed after the power switch and there is a second switch to bypass them after turn on. I am using two in series since I can switch them out and figured that would make a little less wear and tear on the rectifiers.
Thinking about trying choke input on the second amp as a trial. Will require more voltage from the transformer of course
I think there is no question the chokes make a useful improvement.
I think the big advantage of mono amplifiers, if used in a system where everything is mono, is a sense of spaciousness that I have never achieved any other way. The J2s were the only stereo amps in my system. Even John Broskie talks about this effect in one of his recent essays. He relays that David Manley had made the same observation many years ago and had no explanation for why.
His conclusion, and about the only conclusion one could make, is that there is merit to keeping the grounds separate from source to speaker.
Before making the change to First Watt amplifiers I was using GAINCLONES - all were mono amplifiers. Even though the sound quality of the FWs surpassed the GAINCLONES I have been trying for years to figure out why there was a diminution of spaciousness - not to say that the FW amps were not spacious but there was something missing. I had long suspected that there is something about keeping the channels completely separate and had plotted my mono J2 from almost the first day I got them. I had been collecting the parts for the last few months. When Broskie's article was published that was the impetus I needed to DO SOMETHING.
Now I realize there will be many who will take that as EVIDENCE I am hearing what I read. Kind of like Laurie Anderson's piece on reading the cereal box while eating the cereal - she said you realized you are reading what you're eating. Very amusing. One can never be too sure.
Don't know if Ing. Pass has any intention of ever offering the J2 in mono form but I think there could be interest. Of course, on could buy two and disconnect one channel and have a spare, and rare, output devices. Though these devices do seem to be very rugged.
Some had said when I wrote that I was going to do this I might lose the Pass sound. I can assure you the essential sound of the amps remain. The only discontinuities I hear are those mentioned - a little more energy and the lack of the last bit of edge. No one will miss that and that big cap does something that I wonder if the small caps could ever achieve in this frequency range. I will never know since I am not going to change them out. As usual with me I never noticed the burr until it was missing and easier still to hear with the other channel available to compare.
So again I must confess and apologize for my apostasy of using the fellow in Thailand's clone/plagiarized case. This case made it easy to make this transition. One important difference is that the Thai faceplate is much thinner than the FIRST WATT's and is a rather ugly grey color. Like it was painted instead of anodized. All of the holes are exactly the same. What can I say? I am grateful the thing exists. Mr. Pass is not in the business of selling boxes, if he was I would have got the real thing.
In closing I must give my heartfelt thanks and gratitude to the incomparable ZEN MOD for his guidance, counsel and PATIENCE in helping me through both the conceptual and building process. Nothing like having a Master help them when you make stupid mistakes. A Master points one in the right direction without making you feel even stupider than you already did after reporting a problem. I tell ZM he possesses the same spirit as our beloved Nelson Pass.
We are lucky to have them both!
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I'm not sure what you mean by "burr'.
I guess it all depends on what you are familiar with. When I installed mine, it was like the doors to the concert hall had been opened. My J2 is that much more spacious than I was used to.
That would be a way for him to continue selling this design for another 10 years. That is, if he has enough Semisouth JFETS!
But is the difference between stereo and mono-block really great enough to justify his investment in redesigning the amp? Or, would it only interest people like us who are never satisfied, even when we've experienced near perfection?
Also, Papa already offers mono-blocks in the form of his SIT-1 amps which I would love the opportunity to hear just to get a feel for how they sound!
The improved soundstage width from monoblocks is a well known effect. I recently experienced it myself and it is simply the reduction (or elimination) of stereo channel crosstalk (via power rail modulation). Simply having a second power transformer for each channel even if both mounted in the same cabinet will do the same thing. Or even a trafo with separate coils (unconnected - not center tap) can do same. Any amp's performance can be improved substantially with this change. One of the most significant and immediately audible improvements to a stereo system is two separate PSU's. Probably one of the best bang for the buck upgrades one can do. For amps sharing one PSU for both channels simply going to two PSU's (ea with open rectifier and cap smoothing bank) is a marked improvement. Next step is separate transformers.
Redesign the amp? I cannot imagine Mr. Pass needing more than fifteen seconds to come up with a mono J2.
As with lots of things in audio, if your system will not resolve it and you have not been exposed to it previously it is, luckily, inaudible. I was not aware of the burr, it is simply a little roughness at the leading edge of notes - more I think about it - like there is uncertainty, a slight instability that settles quickly but leaves this trace. With something to compare it to there is a difference. Could be the thermistors left in the circuit; I have not listened to the modified supply one with them left in. I tend to think it is the superior quality of the power supply. Who knows for sure?
If you use the DUNCAN power supply tool you can see for any power supply a decent sized choke as opposed to the resistor (which does an amazing job, no question, compared to nothing but a capacitor) results in dramatic lowering of ripple. I know it is nothing but a model but it is useful for comparison's sake. The model predicts a reduction of ripple of ten times less. For the models I used the ANTEK transformer for each. There is likely not much difference in the DC resistances of the primaries and secondaries - not enough to mean anything.
If the system is not mono all the way the mono J2 still delivers a little more liveliness but you will not hear the EXTRA spaciousness. Needless to say the J2 is intrinsically a spacious sounding amplifier. The effect i am talking about is outside what the amplifier, on is own, can do but the result of a system approach - both channel's grounds separate from source (cd player/turntable) to the speakers. Phono stage must be two mono amplifiers, also, to hear the effect.
To repeat, this spaciousness has nothing to do with the individual amplifiers. I did not improve upon the J2s abilities. This approach allows the J2 abilities to be heard in full.
I am using the SIT1s above 500 Hz. These two amplifiers compliment each other.
I have no intention of ever using other amplifiers. This part is done. Well, except for modding the real J2 in a month or so.
As with lots of things in audio, if your system will not resolve it and you have not been exposed to it previously it is, luckily, inaudible. I was not aware of the burr, it is simply a little roughness at the leading edge of notes - more I think about it - like there is uncertainty, a slight instability that settles quickly but leaves this trace. With something to compare it to there is a difference. Could be the thermistors left in the circuit; I have not listened to the modified supply one with them left in. I tend to think it is the superior quality of the power supply. Who knows for sure?
If you use the DUNCAN power supply tool you can see for any power supply a decent sized choke as opposed to the resistor (which does an amazing job, no question, compared to nothing but a capacitor) results in dramatic lowering of ripple. I know it is nothing but a model but it is useful for comparison's sake. The model predicts a reduction of ripple of ten times less. For the models I used the ANTEK transformer for each. There is likely not much difference in the DC resistances of the primaries and secondaries - not enough to mean anything.
If the system is not mono all the way the mono J2 still delivers a little more liveliness but you will not hear the EXTRA spaciousness. Needless to say the J2 is intrinsically a spacious sounding amplifier. The effect i am talking about is outside what the amplifier, on is own, can do but the result of a system approach - both channel's grounds separate from source (cd player/turntable) to the speakers. Phono stage must be two mono amplifiers, also, to hear the effect.
To repeat, this spaciousness has nothing to do with the individual amplifiers. I did not improve upon the J2s abilities. This approach allows the J2 abilities to be heard in full.
I am using the SIT1s above 500 Hz. These two amplifiers compliment each other.
I have no intention of ever using other amplifiers. This part is done. Well, except for modding the real J2 in a month or so.
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XRK971 - absolutely. No room for an extra supply in the J2 case! But no question, and that was the point I was trying to make - keeping the amplifiers separate is the key - whether in one box or two.
One would have a very heavy box with two transformers and four chokes! As it is the "other" J2 is pretty heavy. Compared to stock, which is almost light enough to throw around. I think the ANTEK transformer probably weighs a pound or two more than the PLITRON in addition.
One would have a very heavy box with two transformers and four chokes! As it is the "other" J2 is pretty heavy. Compared to stock, which is almost light enough to throw around. I think the ANTEK transformer probably weighs a pound or two more than the PLITRON in addition.
I had the wisdom to buy lots of the R100's, so there will be continued
product either of J2's or something else.
The issue about two channel supplies and grounding is largely economic.
Better isolation is afforded by mono chassis, and for stereo units the
grounding layout becomes more critical. I use the "hierarchical" approach
and the result as noted by Stereophile is an isolation on the order of -100 dB.
I weigh that against the approximately double cost of mono.
product either of J2's or something else.
The issue about two channel supplies and grounding is largely economic.
Better isolation is afforded by mono chassis, and for stereo units the
grounding layout becomes more critical. I use the "hierarchical" approach
and the result as noted by Stereophile is an isolation on the order of -100 dB.
I weigh that against the approximately double cost of mono.
I had the wisdom to buy lots of the R100's, so there will be continued
product either of J2's or something else...
Oh boy! I can't wait to hear what comes next!!!