Since there are some threads about Mouser and Newark and I didn't want to go off
topic in the "OPA1656 " thread where it didn't get much reaction , here are some
thoughts about buying directly from manufacturers instead of distributors , in this
case Texas Instruments.
There must be a lot of rich , mainly Canadians and Americans , on this forum
because I've never seen a mention about buying directly from TI and saving some
money doing so. ( of course I haven't read that much of the 1000's of threads
here). So for us less fortunate
: Have you seen the price differences between
Mouser/Newark/Digikey/RS/Farnell,... and the T.I store ? If you're buying the more expensive opamps and other audio related parts , this really starts to add up ! Even on the cheaper ones . (sure you'll find some where the difference is not that much). Maybe not many on an audio forum are into logic like 74HC/AHC/LVC,...but I am and even on those cheap(er) parts , prices are much lower. Don't talk to me about margins , TI has to do the same to get it to you.
So why not buy directly from the cheaper manufacturer , you know , the company
who actually makes them over Warren Buffett's orderpickers/robots ( and B. Gates apparently Access to this page has been denied. , I'm not getting political here) . mouser.com/BerkshireVisit/
For all the parts I have researched , TI sells them even for 1 piece . Huh, what ?
Imagine me buying one 74LVC1G32 in SOT23 for 0,066 $ ?
Could it be the extra shipping costs ? As far as I know TI doesn't sell R's , C's ,..
and all other parts that distributors do . But I see many on here already buying from
more than 1 source . Sure some give free shipping above a certain amount , but
even then , shouldn't I prefer to buy directy from the TI store ?
TI does ask for a company name and it's URL when you buy as non registered buyer , but that is easily circumvented by "bending the truth" a little. I don't see them checking. I haven't registered yet to see how that goes.
So what are your experiences buying directly from the TI store ? Any pitfalls ? How is shipping/delivery ? Any reason not to buy from them ?
topic in the "OPA1656 " thread where it didn't get much reaction , here are some
thoughts about buying directly from manufacturers instead of distributors , in this
case Texas Instruments.
There must be a lot of rich , mainly Canadians and Americans , on this forum
because I've never seen a mention about buying directly from TI and saving some
money doing so. ( of course I haven't read that much of the 1000's of threads
here). So for us less fortunate
: Have you seen the price differences between Mouser/Newark/Digikey/RS/Farnell,... and the T.I store ?
If you're buying the more expensive opamps and other audio related parts , this really starts to add up ! Even on the cheaper ones . (sure you'll find some where the difference is not that much). Maybe not many on an audio forum are into logic like 74HC/AHC/LVC,...but I am and even on those cheap(er) parts , prices are much lower. Don't talk to me about margins , TI has to do the same to get it to you. So why not buy directly from the cheaper manufacturer , you know , the company
who actually makes them over Warren Buffett's orderpickers/robots ( and B. Gates apparently Access to this page has been denied. , I'm not getting political here) . mouser.com/BerkshireVisit/
For all the parts I have researched , TI sells them even for 1 piece . Huh, what ?
Imagine me buying one 74LVC1G32 in SOT23 for 0,066 $ ?
Could it be the extra shipping costs ? As far as I know TI doesn't sell R's , C's ,..
and all other parts that distributors do . But I see many on here already buying from
more than 1 source . Sure some give free shipping above a certain amount , but
even then , shouldn't I prefer to buy directy from the TI store ?
TI does ask for a company name and it's URL when you buy as non registered buyer , but that is easily circumvented by "bending the truth" a little.
I don't see them checking. I haven't registered yet to see how that goes.So what are your experiences buying directly from the TI store ? Any pitfalls ? How is shipping/delivery ? Any reason not to buy from them ?
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Your link -"access to this page has been denied " --?--not for me .
Usually that comes up if you deny the website to find out who you are --Cloudfare is well known for that ---"protected by Cloudfare " or you use Tor.
Thats why I have 4 browsers as a safeguard , if I have trouble accessing a website I disable some of my protection apps .
No problem accessing TI -USA( direct ) and TI via UK .
I get what you are going on about but I have bought direct from the USA from USA electronic parts giants and the only thing they checked out was if it was a part not allowed to be exported , came with a Homeland Security pass letter .
Even accessing US government departments is no problem obviously they don't think I am a "threat " to the USA .
Usually that comes up if you deny the website to find out who you are --Cloudfare is well known for that ---"protected by Cloudfare " or you use Tor.
Thats why I have 4 browsers as a safeguard , if I have trouble accessing a website I disable some of my protection apps .
No problem accessing TI -USA( direct ) and TI via UK .
I get what you are going on about but I have bought direct from the USA from USA electronic parts giants and the only thing they checked out was if it was a part not allowed to be exported , came with a Homeland Security pass letter .
Even accessing US government departments is no problem obviously they don't think I am a "threat " to the USA .
^ The "access to this page has been denied " was done when I posted it by diyaudio, so in edit I put the shorter URL behind it. It was only a peak at who has a vinger in the Mouser pie.
Yes they ask what is it used for , more to cover their a$$ , because you can fill in what ever you want from a list (if I remember it correctly).
I've read nearly all of tomch and some others that use TI parts and I don't recall reading about buying directly from the TI store . Why is that ?
A quick glance at the Analog devices website and I don't see a way of buying there. Not a problem , I'm not much into what they have to offer. Nor does Maxim . TI seems the biggest and best with a larger product range , so more parts to buy from them to make it worthwhile.
What I don't like is in their terms of sale :
Unless TI notifies Buyer otherwise, shipments will be delivered FCA (Incoterms 2010) TI’s point of shipment. Risk of loss or damage will pass to Buyer upon TI’s delivery to the TI designated shipping point. Any subsequent loss or damage will not relieve Buyer from its obligations. Buyer is solely responsible for costs of freight and insurance after delivery to the TI designated shipping point. If TI incurs freight or insurance costs on Buyer’s behalf, Buyer must promptly reimburse TI for such freight or insurance costs.
So I pay , TI sends it, it gets lost and I get nothing ? Pretty high risk .
Yes they ask what is it used for , more to cover their a$$ , because you can fill in what ever you want from a list (if I remember it correctly).
I've read nearly all of tomch and some others that use TI parts and I don't recall reading about buying directly from the TI store . Why is that ?
A quick glance at the Analog devices website and I don't see a way of buying there. Not a problem , I'm not much into what they have to offer. Nor does Maxim . TI seems the biggest and best with a larger product range , so more parts to buy from them to make it worthwhile.
What I don't like is in their terms of sale :
Unless TI notifies Buyer otherwise, shipments will be delivered FCA (Incoterms 2010) TI’s point of shipment. Risk of loss or damage will pass to Buyer upon TI’s delivery to the TI designated shipping point. Any subsequent loss or damage will not relieve Buyer from its obligations. Buyer is solely responsible for costs of freight and insurance after delivery to the TI designated shipping point. If TI incurs freight or insurance costs on Buyer’s behalf, Buyer must promptly reimburse TI for such freight or insurance costs.
So I pay , TI sends it, it gets lost and I get nothing ? Pretty high risk .
Ordering from the manufacturer is almost always the last resort IMLE, generally somewhat more expensive than the authorized distributors and slower/less reliable. This is one step up from their sample service.
In many cases if the distributor doesn't have the parts or can't get them dropped shipped, the factory won't have them either.
In many cases if the distributor doesn't have the parts or can't get them dropped shipped, the factory won't have them either.
^ Yes I've bought from RS too with free shipping and without a trading account and very easy payment in local currency via an app.
It was a limited order , and I have no clue how they made money on that. Problem with RS is obviously higher prices compared to TI , but the amount you have to buy are often weird numbers like 70 pieces of an item or 5 .
Say I want to buy an LM4562 in SOIC : for 1 or more I pay 3.56 $ , on my local RS site counted in local currency less than 2 $ , TI store $0.978 !
But free shipping and with TI , their website doesn't even show which company they use : UPS , DHL ?
When I go to the checkout last page where you put in the payment , it shows shipping costs , and it is fairly low (for me less that 7 $). I wonder if this is the shipping cost they charge for delivering it to a company like UPS , and then I have to pay at delivery local tax/import cost and UPS or other. That's what I understand reading the terms of sale.
With RS I just had to pay local tax/import costs at delivery.
It was a limited order , and I have no clue how they made money on that. Problem with RS is obviously higher prices compared to TI , but the amount you have to buy are often weird numbers like 70 pieces of an item or 5 .
Say I want to buy an LM4562 in SOIC : for 1 or more I pay 3.56 $ , on my local RS site counted in local currency less than 2 $ , TI store $0.978 !
But free shipping and with TI , their website doesn't even show which company they use : UPS , DHL ?
When I go to the checkout last page where you put in the payment , it shows shipping costs , and it is fairly low (for me less that 7 $). I wonder if this is the shipping cost they charge for delivering it to a company like UPS , and then I have to pay at delivery local tax/import cost and UPS or other. That's what I understand reading the terms of sale.
With RS I just had to pay local tax/import costs at delivery.
Wow , half a year later I finally ordered from the TI store ... yes I am very, very slow and I never ordered for abroad before. Components for 4 different projects takes time to select and I was kind of waiting for a good HP design , which didn't come (in my opinion).
Last 6 months there was always something(s) not in stock. And then some trouble adding items to the cart. But I got it done .... at always higher prices and worse exchange rate but before delivery problems because of end year rush and airplanes without pilots.
TI store split the order into 2 , from different locations and after only 3 working days , they arrived ! Wow , I mean wow ! Big (heavy cardboard) boxes for some little SOIC's and SOT23's or DCK's , nicely packed in antistatic bags with ziplock ( so re-usable) . Now how can their robots open a zip baggie ? My local vendor just sticks the already protected by the reel tape components in an ordinary plastic bag, the other local one just puts them loose in a ordinary plastic baggie. (probably from a tube) And then I found SZZA047 on the TI site.
The opamps came with a humidity absorbing bag , I don't get why . They are in epoxy ! If opamps need to be protected from moisture , why not the logic IC's ?
Some components in a small box with thick antistatic/conducting foam and a carbon layer on the inside of the cardboard that conducts ! TI takes ESD serious. My foam is decades old and crumbling , I didn't think they still used that but I still do , so thank you TI !
Lots of printed paper detailing the order. If I had known it was this easy and painless I would have ordered more , but TI only lets 35 items in your cart. I chat with their very nice support and they tell me it is because of the chip shortages , ehm what ? So if I bought more of the 35 items already in the cart , it wouldn't ? Kinda weird , but ok I could order again.
A while ago , I made 2 exactly the same carts at the TI store and Mouser for about 100 $ , at Mouser for the same it costed 175 $ . That is not just 75 $ more , but also extra taxes on the 75 $. Like I said before , why buy from the distributor when you can buy from the people that actually designed and made them.
I am very happy with my purchase at the TI store , I would recommend it to others. Of course your mileage could be different .
So what kevinkr in post #4 says :
Ordering from the manufacturer is almost always the last resort IMLE, generally somewhat more expensive than the authorized distributors and slower/less reliable. This is one step up from their sample service.
Is totally not true for the TI store . Cheaper , quick , nicely packaged ( maybe a little over - packaged , but not complaining , it savely arrived ).
Wow , first time I bought opamps in SOT23 , 74AUP's , 74AHC's and 74HCS's .
Only 1 thing I can say : Thank you Texas Instruments !
Since I needed other non TI components , I had to buy at Mouser a couple of days later. The order was picked the same day , but this had to come all the way from Texas , and took the longer scenic route . A 2 day delay in china and it arrived after 6 working days , so still good for that distance.
Yes antistatic bags too , but taped closed , the cardboard box needed to be ripped open and then useless. But everything is there , and also happy with it , even at higher prices.
Last 6 months there was always something(s) not in stock. And then some trouble adding items to the cart. But I got it done .... at always higher prices and worse exchange rate but before delivery problems because of end year rush and airplanes without pilots.
TI store split the order into 2 , from different locations and after only 3 working days , they arrived ! Wow , I mean wow ! Big (heavy cardboard) boxes for some little SOIC's and SOT23's or DCK's , nicely packed in antistatic bags with ziplock ( so re-usable) . Now how can their robots open a zip baggie ?
My local vendor just sticks the already protected by the reel tape components in an ordinary plastic bag, the other local one just puts them loose in a ordinary plastic baggie. (probably from a tube) And then I found SZZA047 on the TI site.The opamps came with a humidity absorbing bag , I don't get why . They are in epoxy ! If opamps need to be protected from moisture , why not the logic IC's ?
Some components in a small box with thick antistatic/conducting foam and a carbon layer on the inside of the cardboard that conducts ! TI takes ESD serious. My foam is decades old and crumbling , I didn't think they still used that but I still do , so thank you TI !
Lots of printed paper detailing the order. If I had known it was this easy and painless I would have ordered more , but TI only lets 35 items in your cart.
I chat with their very nice support and they tell me it is because of the chip shortages , ehm what ? So if I bought more of the 35 items already in the cart , it wouldn't ? Kinda weird , but ok I could order again. A while ago , I made 2 exactly the same carts at the TI store and Mouser for about 100 $ , at Mouser for the same it costed 175 $ . That is not just 75 $ more , but also extra taxes on the 75 $. Like I said before , why buy from the distributor when you can buy from the people that actually designed and made them.
I am very happy with my purchase at the TI store , I would recommend it to others. Of course your mileage could be different .
So what kevinkr in post #4 says :
Ordering from the manufacturer is almost always the last resort IMLE, generally somewhat more expensive than the authorized distributors and slower/less reliable. This is one step up from their sample service.
Is totally not true for the TI store . Cheaper , quick , nicely packaged ( maybe a little over - packaged , but not complaining , it savely arrived ).
Wow , first time I bought opamps in SOT23 , 74AUP's , 74AHC's and 74HCS's .
Only 1 thing I can say : Thank you Texas Instruments !
Since I needed other non TI components , I had to buy at Mouser a couple of days later. The order was picked the same day , but this had to come all the way from Texas , and took the longer scenic route .
A 2 day delay in china and it arrived after 6 working days , so still good for that distance.Yes antistatic bags too , but taped closed , the cardboard box needed to be ripped open and then useless. But everything is there , and also happy with it , even at higher prices.
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Epoxy absorbs moisture over time, leading to a small risk of damaging components in the reflow oven. On a complex board you want the risk of any component being damaged to be very very close to zero (because there are so many components, and one failure ruins a board (not economic to repair)), hence the moisture control: Moisture sensitivity level - Wikipedia
Yes, logic chips are moisture controlled too.
A lot of manufacturers will place surface mount components on the solder side of the board (with an adhesive dot), and run the whole mess of topside and bottom side components through the wave. If there is residual moisture in the SMD epoxy package, you run the risk of the parts behaving like kernels of popcorn...
A little leakage does NOT matter to logic. All sources are strongly slammed.
Leakage may matter a LOT to an opamp. The least trace of moisture may throw it out of spec.
Prices: you are buying on a turbulent market. "Normally" the maker needs the good will of the Distributors and will not undercut the distributors' prices. Normally the Distributors buy most of the maker's output, cash on the table, so the maker can make more stuff ASAP. Ordering direct, bypassing distribution, is just a small favor for a few small orders. Medium orders will be referred to Distributors. (If you need as many as Mouser does, the factory may do you a deal.)
However 2021 is crazy. Mouser doesn't know when stuff will come in. Many of their makers do not know either! So Mouser does what any smart businessperson does: charge well to maintain income on limited sales. TI knows more than most makers and has been able to take a very long-range view: the market will stabilize in a few years. (The year TI started, making oil-finders, a massive oil strike in Texas eliminated the market for oil-finding for a decade. TI remembers.)
That's an interesting point - moisture in epoxy will have some effect on leakage (though at low temperatures it probably isn't mobile, and at high temperatures it will bake out).
But normally its air humidity(*) that dominates leakage on PCBs for ultra-high impedance work, which is why guard rings are used when ultra high impedance CMOS opamps are required for such stuff (like pH meters).
(*) Moisture in the air is in equilibrium with a surface film of water molecules on most substances, and surface H2O is mobile. This is why static electricity experiments don't work well unless the relative humidity is very low.
But normally its air humidity(*) that dominates leakage on PCBs for ultra-high impedance work, which is why guard rings are used when ultra high impedance CMOS opamps are required for such stuff (like pH meters).
(*) Moisture in the air is in equilibrium with a surface film of water molecules on most substances, and surface H2O is mobile. This is why static electricity experiments don't work well unless the relative humidity is very low.
My laptop is working in high humidity for 9 months out of 12 , and this for more than 12 years . I think the heat it produces evaporates the moisture on the PCB and components. Of course no sensitive high impedance CMOS/Jfet opamps in there , I think.
I've seen stock numbers in the TIstore of 1 million for a 74cmos part , never that much at Mouser. So medium to big orders go directly to TI , not distributors. You think like a car makers buys big orders at Mouser ? TI with its store can undercut them , it doesn't need the 'good will' of them. Undercut is not the right word , it is the normal price without the margin and profit of the distributor. It's just great that the TIstore lets us buy too and small orders. Nexperia doesn't.
Somewhere in juli/august digikey bought the entire stock of LME49600 , some 6000 if I remember correctly to sell it a lot more expensive ! I had to wait till september for TI to get some stock at their reasonable price ... but then others were out of stock.
I've seen stock numbers in the TIstore of 1 million for a 74cmos part , never that much at Mouser. So medium to big orders go directly to TI , not distributors. You think like a car makers buys big orders at Mouser ? TI with its store can undercut them , it doesn't need the 'good will' of them. Undercut is not the right word , it is the normal price without the margin and profit of the distributor. It's just great that the TIstore lets us buy too and small orders. Nexperia doesn't.
Somewhere in juli/august digikey bought the entire stock of LME49600 , some 6000 if I remember correctly to sell it a lot more expensive ! I had to wait till september for TI to get some stock at their reasonable price ... but then others were out of stock.
If the TI store sells them at a good price and in low numbers , why would you want free samples ?
The problem is actually during board manufacture, IR or vapor phase solder processes involve very high temperatures and damage occurs to the component if there is absorbed moisture in the component.
Usually a short low temperature bake is used if the parts are damp. (If the moisture indicator packed with the devices is not pure blue for example.)
