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What are the sonic differences between various type of SMD resistors??
What are the sonic differences between various type of SMD resistors??
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Old 18th September 2020, 02:17 PM   #31
dreamth is offline dreamth  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Whitney View Post
Think about what happens when the feedback loop is a filter, which it nearly always is.
there's no filter made with just one resistor unles there's some additional capacitance or inductance around. The resistive part won't produce any distortion all by itself. Usual resistors used in feedback path ,being it carbon or metal don't have significant inductance or reactance to compound a filter in the audio band of interest.
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:03 PM   #32
Indiglo is offline Indiglo  Australia
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@dreamth - "Resistor Voltage Coefficient Non-linearity"
See pages 5-8 of the document in post #16.
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:06 PM   #33
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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What are the sonic differences between various type of SMD resistors??
Any non-linearities in the feedback network will be corrected and added to the output (which is not wanted).


Imagine a pathalogical case with an amplifier with a low open loop distortion and a poorly chosen feedback resistor that adds distortion. The action of negative feedback will add the correction signal for that resistor back into the output, increasing the overall distortion. This was shown in the link to Suzy's amplifier tests where putting a MELF in rather than a teeny thin film significantly reduced distortion.
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:14 PM   #34
dreamth is offline dreamth  Romania
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well...you're talking about temperature drift when you're not choosing the right power for the resistor...milf resistors are handling temperature better at the same volume with other species, but that doesn't mean that a resistor by itself is causing any distortion when NOT poorly chosen one. A very old trick is to put a 10 times higher power resistor than needed and that's all ...
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:19 PM   #35
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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What are the sonic differences between various type of SMD resistors??
Like I said, std textbook stuff.
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:33 PM   #36
dreamth is offline dreamth  Romania
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You said that the the feedback loop can't act upon the feedback resistor itself .If its value drifts away you're right, but that wouldn't be significant if the resistor's dissipation power is chosen well and again...unless you're designing some very high precision circuits i can't see why would you bother with it.
Some time ago i was testing very high precision high voltageDC power supplies(if i remember right it was somthing like 0.003 v kind of precision for 3 kWatts of power smps... )and i remember that they were using multiple smd resistors in a raw in both parts of the feedback divider to match the temperature coeficient drift .If i'm not wrong about that, Marcel VDG talked about that in other topic i think.

Last edited by dreamth; 18th September 2020 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:43 PM   #37
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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No Bill,

Resistor distortion is just starting to appear in textbooks. You know where the current measurements bit started 10 years ago, but seem to have forgotten the important results.

Low temperature coefficient is nice as that reduces odd order harmonic distortion. Even order distortion is a sign of very bad resistors. So of course some folks prefer that sound, as even order distortion masks other bits of bad stuff. Also adds a musical richness to sounds, although that is in the end coloration. As to the artistic effect of distortion ask any fan of Pablo Picasso!

Now using a resistor at a fraction of the power rating reduces distortion, by reducing temperature rise. In some resistor types it also lowers noise. However noise is not as large a concern in properly designed equipment. The major exception is the input stages of low level preamps, such as phonograph preamplifiers.

When using surface mounted resistors I prefer the metal film types in the 1208 size. I very particularly do this in my now thousands of microphone preamplifiers. The microphones came out on top of a listen-off of the other microphones intended for security use in prisons! (Who knew audiophile concerns also affected other folks with a much more serious attitude.)

For thumbnail ID just mouse over the image. For those who haven't seen these measurements before, the test excitation is 1,000 hertz at a level of 0 dB reference and suppressed by the measurement technique. 1,000 ohm resistors shown are tested at a small fraction of rated power.
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Last edited by simon7000; 18th September 2020 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:52 PM   #38
dreamth is offline dreamth  Romania
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"The microphones came out on top of a listen-off of the other microphones intended for security use in prisons!(Who knew audiophile concerns also affected other folks with a much more serious attitude.)
"
That's serious texbook stuff now
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Old 18th September 2020, 03:54 PM   #39
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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What are the sonic differences between various type of SMD resistors??
There has been an analog devices slide pack floating around since the 80s talking about strings of feedback resistors so I don't buy 'last 10 years'. In precision analog even the orientation can matter. But of course we both no audio is not precise in any way
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Old 18th September 2020, 04:00 PM   #40
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
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Bill,

Then I must assume your diet really has affected your memory! Using a string of the same resistors to match and remove resistor distortion from feedback loops is much older. Accurately measuring distortion is what was shown and that method now widely copied is at ten years.

ES
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