really...solder joint "break in"...come on
at low impedance trimming levels with small changes in resistance can have a pronounced effect but repeated results are hard to come by...which is why i tend to go active rather than passive, not to say i won't use a passive crossover and have toiled and lost on attempts to fine tune them and am content that they function for the most part as intented.
at low impedance trimming levels with small changes in resistance can have a pronounced effect but repeated results are hard to come by...which is why i tend to go active rather than passive, not to say i won't use a passive crossover and have toiled and lost on attempts to fine tune them and am content that they function for the most part as intented.
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More likely…
Cold-or-poor solder joints are the culprit. Now, granted I've been soldering things for decades … 5 of them to be sure. And early on, after the ouch! Burned finger stage, my uncle showed me how to make an aerospace-qualified solder joint. Fast, solid, every time.
In the meantime, I've reviewed work from scores of peoples mods, upgrades, projects.
The № 1 problem is poor soldering.
№ 2 is mind-boggling wiring runs, lashing, etc.
№ 3 is mis-sizing components from of garden-variety naivety.
It happens. Most newbs have a hard time separating “precision” from “quality”, and “watts” from “more watts”. Sad, but true.
Just saying,
GoatGuy ✓
Cold-or-poor solder joints are the culprit. Now, granted I've been soldering things for decades … 5 of them to be sure. And early on, after the ouch! Burned finger stage, my uncle showed me how to make an aerospace-qualified solder joint. Fast, solid, every time.
In the meantime, I've reviewed work from scores of peoples mods, upgrades, projects.
The № 1 problem is poor soldering.
№ 2 is mind-boggling wiring runs, lashing, etc.
№ 3 is mis-sizing components from of garden-variety naivety.
It happens. Most newbs have a hard time separating “precision” from “quality”, and “watts” from “more watts”. Sad, but true.
Just saying,
GoatGuy ✓
The huge differences in the types of materials that are used in resistors (incl power resistors too) will have quite a different sounds indeed, even if it has the same resistance?
The OP changed out his original resistors for the well known 'bright' Mundorf supreme resistors in the speaker Xovers and didn't like the result - perfectly understandable - if you were to try the Mills MRA ones instead of the Mundorf's, they would provide a lot smoother sound
Resistor do have different sounds - for example, the difference in sound between say, a carbon power resistor and an Isotan or Nichrome resistor is huge - nobody could ever miss the difference.
The OP changed out his original resistors for the well known 'bright' Mundorf supreme resistors in the speaker Xovers and didn't like the result - perfectly understandable - if you were to try the Mills MRA ones instead of the Mundorf's, they would provide a lot smoother sound
Resistor do have different sounds - for example, the difference in sound between say, a carbon power resistor and an Isotan or Nichrome resistor is huge - nobody could ever miss the difference.
You need to characterise the resistors for RLC and that will give you an idea of how much distortion they will cause.
Different isn't always better.
Also, there is the personal taste side of sound to the argument. It could be cheap crappy resistors give the best sound (in your opinion.)
Hi,
I had also made very good experiences with the Mundorf Supremes. For an inductive balanced filter for a very revealing wideband driver (Fertin 21M8EX), I needed resistors of a pretty high rating.
I tried Janzen Superes (several of them), a Dale-Vishay 50-Watt metal film on heatsink, an expensive pack of 4 Duelunds and the Mundorf Supremes.
Of course any findings are only valid for this single application, but I liked the Mundorfs best here. I tried to like the Duelunds, as I had paid so much money for them, but it didn´t work...
No double blind test, but just subjective judgement by ear, sorry...
All the best
Mattes
I had also made very good experiences with the Mundorf Supremes. For an inductive balanced filter for a very revealing wideband driver (Fertin 21M8EX), I needed resistors of a pretty high rating.
I tried Janzen Superes (several of them), a Dale-Vishay 50-Watt metal film on heatsink, an expensive pack of 4 Duelunds and the Mundorf Supremes.
Of course any findings are only valid for this single application, but I liked the Mundorfs best here. I tried to like the Duelunds, as I had paid so much money for them, but it didn´t work...
No double blind test, but just subjective judgement by ear, sorry...
All the best
Mattes
Since the original ceramic resistors are likely to have a much higher parasitic inductance than the mundorf supreme resistors, it would make sense that you would hear more treble than previously and possibly too much. Since the crossover design was based on the use of ceramic resistors, it might be the case that a higher resistance value would be required to get the same perceived levels of treble - ah, good fun.
Been there, done that. I was sure the expensive cable sounded better than the stock cable on my headphones. Then I did a blind test with the help of a friend. It turned out that once my eyes were not involved there simply was no difference -- my blind responses on which cable was in place were as good as flipping a coin.
Measuring the actual properties of resistors is not an especially obscure challenge. And what to expect is somewhat predictable. All these resistors will have significant a temperature coefficient. That would mean changing value with power dissipated-the audio signal will modulate the resistance. The wirewounds will be the best depending on the wire used. Nichrome is typical but has a significant TC 1.7 ppm/degree. And its positive, increasing with temperature. Carbon is negative with temperature to the tune of 200 ppm/degree. Carbon will also have substantial voltage coefficient. Carbon can have real significant harmonic distortion. One can see how there might be a difference in sound between carbon and nichrome. Its one real benefit is its short term power handling which can be substantial. But that's meaningless in audio. Kilowatt surges on 5W resistors won't happen in audio. Wirewound resistors can have inductance but even the cheap $1 aluminum cased China resistors have less inductance than the connecting wires in my measurements. Resistance wire is also hard to connect to and not really solderable so some resistors will have issues with stability that relate to those connections.
If you are tuning to taste these are all tricks to play with but its not higher accuracy you are getting. Real accurate precision resistors with no frequency issues or distortion are available but expensive. And would probably not make a measurable or audible difference.
If you are tuning to taste these are all tricks to play with but its not higher accuracy you are getting. Real accurate precision resistors with no frequency issues or distortion are available but expensive. And would probably not make a measurable or audible difference.
They are repackaging some good premium resistors. However, having fried an array of similar resistors they do not have much "reserve" and the peak pulse power is not a lot higher than the continuous power. In that application, after toasting $300 worth of resistors I saw the light and found a lot of Allen Bradley 5W carbon comp resistors. However in audio 3000 amp 100 uS pulses do not happen.
I too like the good ol' PBH ones, but jeez, talk about the price hike!
Also, as we've all found at some stage, expensive doesn't always sound better - as Alan mentioned above (#28) It could be cheap crappy resistors give the best sound (in your opinion.)
It's good to be reminded occasionally to 'keep feet on the ground and head out of the clouds'!
Also, as we've all found at some stage, expensive doesn't always sound better - as Alan mentioned above (#28) It could be cheap crappy resistors give the best sound (in your opinion.)
It's good to be reminded occasionally to 'keep feet on the ground and head out of the clouds'!
I tried Mills MRA in the voltage feedback of opa... the result was not good VS others wirewound resistors. Seemed to me less transparent, and sadly colored. Good price though but unsuitable there.
I do not know if Supreme Mundorf resistors are better but sure they do not sound the same in my tweeter path...15 ohms R : The mundorf has more clarity and notes seem ligther too. The cement 15 ohms gives in my setup a sligthy thicker, meatier darky treble, less ligth...than be usefull or not according your driver power response imho.
According your setup it maybe a useful part or not.
The difference is immediatly hearable, it is however much less than changing the serie capacitors.
Some reported it needed break in. I didn't experienced it made any difference. Others say to solder on the flat metal area to avoid the long leads that would decrease the result?! I did not try, it appeared to me to be too much of the snaky oil side.
One I would be happy to try is the Vishay Beyshlag Dacrolic wirewound AC serie (green coated cement body) if existing above 5W. It seems also to exist in Ayrton Perry winding according the datasheet. The normal one gave me good subjective results in electronic circuitry like the feedback loop of opas.
My two cents
I do not know if Supreme Mundorf resistors are better but sure they do not sound the same in my tweeter path...15 ohms R : The mundorf has more clarity and notes seem ligther too. The cement 15 ohms gives in my setup a sligthy thicker, meatier darky treble, less ligth...than be usefull or not according your driver power response imho.
According your setup it maybe a useful part or not.
The difference is immediatly hearable, it is however much less than changing the serie capacitors.
Some reported it needed break in. I didn't experienced it made any difference. Others say to solder on the flat metal area to avoid the long leads that would decrease the result?! I did not try, it appeared to me to be too much of the snaky oil side.
One I would be happy to try is the Vishay Beyshlag Dacrolic wirewound AC serie (green coated cement body) if existing above 5W. It seems also to exist in Ayrton Perry winding according the datasheet. The normal one gave me good subjective results in electronic circuitry like the feedback loop of opas.
My two cents
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