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Old 17th June 2019, 04:37 PM   #21
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
Get out your antenna physics handbook. As Cordell writes "EMI Ingress: Antennas Everywhere" When you get into the MHz the cable, even connected to a loudspeaker, acts as a badly terminated radiator.
True .... but thatīs what Zobel Networks are for (among other things).

The amplifier, which is what worries us being an active device, will always see, say, 10 ohms, and quite resistive at that.

IF necessary, a similar Zobel might be wired across cabinet input terminals ... a $ 2 solution and better than a $2400 exotic cable.

In any case, if it were necessary to Zobel cabinets, many would do so; that almost nobody does might indicate something.

A few crossovers do though, more power to their designers, and no, I donīt consider that snake oil at all, in this case it means attention to detail.
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Old 17th June 2019, 05:04 PM   #22
Galu is online now Galu  Scotland
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Originally Posted by wiseoldtech View Post
And there are tons of "snake oil" salesmen on the internet and even in stores - they need your money.
Without the profits made from selling cables, there would probably be even fewer Hi-Fi emporiums in existence.

So I wouldn't knock expensive cables completely. Their purchase allows those with the deepest pockets to make a difference for the rest of us.
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Old 18th June 2019, 12:46 AM   #23
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
True .... but thatīs what Zobel Networks are for (among other things).

In any case, if it were necessary to Zobel cabinets, many would do so; that almost nobody does might indicate something.
Expensive amplifiers behaving badly!

I did one of those "lumped parameter" simulations of the cable in question and the sim looks very much like the graph.

a 5R 220nF Zobel on the terminating end seemed to quiet things down quite a bit, but I think that what Bob Cordell is getting at is the radiation captured by a badly terminated transmission line possibly exciting the amplifier under test.

Maybe we're just counting angels on the head of a pin, more a problem in theory than praxis.

@galu -- the cartoon describes my marital situation exactly although I almost universally use Radio Shack flat cable.

Last edited by jackinnj; 18th June 2019 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 18th June 2019, 12:22 PM   #24
Galu is online now Galu  Scotland
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Originally Posted by jackinnj View Post
@galu -- the cartoon describes my marital situation exactly although I almost universally use Radio Shack flat cable.
My wife's opposition to speaker cables ceased when I installed white, flat speaker cable.

She likes the way the flat cable dresses neatly as it descends from our stand mounts, and also the way that it almost disappears between the skirting board and the carpet.

As they say: "happy wife, happy life!"
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Old 18th June 2019, 02:45 PM   #25
schiirrn is offline schiirrn  Germany
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
The system consists of essentially a simple circuit loop. You want to minimise the resistance by using thick enough conductors, and minimise the inductance by keeping the out and return conductors near each other.

There are difficult bits in audio. Speaker wire is not one of them.

Wrong. With the added resistance of the wire you change the Q of the system and influence damping.
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Old 18th June 2019, 03:03 PM   #26
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Which is why Dave likes skinny little wires with his small driver systems.
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Old 18th June 2019, 03:25 PM   #27
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Originally Posted by schiirrn
Wrong. With the added resistance of the wire you change the Q of the system and influence damping.
I said minimise resistance. This is because most speakers are designed for a voltage source. However, a little resistance does little harm. "Little" means small compared with the speaker nominal impedance. If you have added enough resistance to noticeably change the bass Q then your cable is too long or too thin.
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Old 18th June 2019, 03:35 PM   #28
planet10 is online now planet10  Canada
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If you have added enough resistance to noticeably change the bass Q then your cable is too long or too thin.
Or the speakers have good mechanical damping and are best if driven by a higher output impedance amplifier/wire.

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Old 18th June 2019, 04:10 PM   #29
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Yes, but that is a rarer condition.
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Old 18th June 2019, 04:22 PM   #30
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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In any case, good speaker designers must consider their cabinets being driven from a Voltage source (your average amplifier out there) plus, say, 0.1 or 0.2 ohms (cable and terminal resistance) in series.
And should not be rendered unusable by, say, 0.5 ohm

Which I bet they do, simply being realistic and designing stuff to be actually *used* in, say, a Living Room or equivalent.

Stuff which only works in a Lab environment but has problems anywhere else does not have much future.
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