If the circuit is designed for low ESR, which it should be, then ceramic caps. They are far more effective here because of their very low ESL. If you need more capacitance than that, or capacitance that is more stable over voltage and temperature, then a solid polymer electrolytic. If voltage is too high for a solid polymer, then a hybrid type like Panasonic ZA/ZC/ZS.
Keep in mind that my recommendation is for a clean sheet design, so any stability or ringing issues would be addressed.
Elna and also Nichicon say to not use caps with a shelf life of over 7 years . If an electrolytic cap sits on a box unused for let's say 20 years and I put that inside an amp there are some risks to damage the amp ?. I was referring that the caps I installed have been sitting on a shelf unused for 4 to 10 years . So you're saying those are still formed after all this time sitting all this time on the shelf and I;m just imagining ?. C'mon hy you think this way ?Hi Robert,
I can assure you that they are fully formed in the factory. 4 year old capacitors shouldn't have any problems unless used improperly. No, 4 years in use will not allow the capacitor to deform.
I have circuits I built in high school in the early 70's, and those parts seem to stand up. I tend to restore equipment ranging from the 80's down to the 20's. Some parts are bad from the 80's and some from the 20's are good. Those would be mica capacitors and some resistors. Electrolytic capacitors are often still good from equipment in the 1970's, but I change many because today's parts are so much better than what we had in the 1970's. You're talking about baby parts that haven't matured yet!
Without the proper equipment, you have zero idea of what you are imagining or not. You wouldn't be the first one to have to accept they were wrong about some things. As a technician, exposed top this stuff every day, some swallowing of pride occurs almost daily. There is so much to learn that it takes a lifetime to do, and if I live to be 200 I'll bet I would still be learning. New technicians are the most amusing to watch as their beliefs fall one by one. Working with this forces you to accept what is true over whatever idea you may have had. Call it continuing education.
-Chris
Hi Robert,
I measure new capacitors before I install them. I am sure they are okay. The recommendation for a 7 year shelf life is partially due to solderability in a wave soldering machine, and also to avoid embarrassment if performance has been affected due to storage issues or the higher failure rate after a long storage. For a hobbyist, this is normally not a concern.
I discard capacitors that are not up to snuff, new ones. I just threw out some toggle switches, the little Alco type ones. Ordered new to replace them.
-Chris
I measure new capacitors before I install them. I am sure they are okay. The recommendation for a 7 year shelf life is partially due to solderability in a wave soldering machine, and also to avoid embarrassment if performance has been affected due to storage issues or the higher failure rate after a long storage. For a hobbyist, this is normally not a concern.
I discard capacitors that are not up to snuff, new ones. I just threw out some toggle switches, the little Alco type ones. Ordered new to replace them.
-Chris
The best way to prove for your self that caps have different sounds is to buy two identical amplifiers that sound exactly the same and after that you replace all electrolytics in each amp . In one you use only Nichicon KZ and in the other one only Silmic 2 . The one using Nichicon KZs will sound a little hard and aggressive on top having a sound that is a little cold but very detailed and strong . The one using Silmic will sound very warm and rounded the high freq being very forgiving compared to KZs.Also the details will not be so great like with KZs Silmic offering more an exotic mellow presentation . So the amps will become 2 different amps after 200 hours of burn in . AB blind tests confirm this
The key to create an amazing sound is to combine different caps and I don't know exactly what to use where .
Usually after I restore am amp I put mostly KZs and after those are breaked if the highs are to hard (ear irritation) I start replacing the smaller values with Silmic 2 until my ears accept the sound without being irritated . To much Silmic 2 will create the opposite the sound being to mellow and losing the sparkle .
The key to create an amazing sound is to combine different caps and I don't know exactly what to use where .
Usually after I restore am amp I put mostly KZs and after those are breaked if the highs are to hard (ear irritation) I start replacing the smaller values with Silmic 2 until my ears accept the sound without being irritated . To much Silmic 2 will create the opposite the sound being to mellow and losing the sparkle .
No. A few minutes is sufficient; in most cases a few seconds is enough time. Even a really old electrolytic which has sat unused on a shelf for years will reform in a few hours; any which will not recover within that time need to be thrown away. It might take days or weeks for you to get used to a new sound, especially if you have damaged something with your tinkering.robert2017 said:
No way !!!. So you think the caps would break in inside the amp in seconds at very low volume ??. No way because those receive very low voltage and there is almost no heat or activity inside them . I have other amps to use for reference and I do A B C D tests usually having 4 amps connected to the same sound card and all 4 connected to the same speakers (using an on off switcher )so I can't be tricked to get used to the new sound lying my self or something to accept a bad sound.. because I always compare one amp with other 3 amps. I'm a different kind of audiophiller .
C'mon break in do take time for most of the caps. I have 3 other amps as reference and I can't be tricked . It is what it is .
Voltage across caps does not change with volume. Not in power supplies (obviously), and not even the coupling caps if correctly dimensioned. This is delusional.
Jan
Maybe your missing something . Something is happening inside those big KZs and Silmics and can take up to 200 hours to fully break in . I don't know what but is real. I always use other references for AB tests . Is obvious that your not using a well treated room and other amp references or hi quality speakers in order to see if this break in is really real or not .
Getting used with a sound or your brains being able with some "training"(200 hours) to hear only what is really meaningful and ignore the "noise" is part of cognitive science, not audio engineering!
That thing also happens with painters when they get so used with some nuances that they need at least a few hours to look away , working with other colours to be able to tell apart the fine difference between nuances when they get to work with them again...
Lo-fi equipment never need breaking in because its bandwidth is already reduced so the noise is reduced too...
I have to tell that again: i understood a lot of the very wrong "audiophile ideas" after i have dealt with some high quality cassette players and their Dolby systems.Dolby was a genius in his noise vs music analyses. The sliding band noise reduction system works because is just enhancing what we already have implemented in our brains by millions of years of evolution.
A similar sliding band harmonic reduction takes place in valve amplifiers so that we mainly hear the harmonics of the lower frequency signals due to the output transformer saturation by the frequencies with the highest amplitude and that was a key aspect of simulating valve amplifiers with silicon transistors and is actually the main theme of one of the best valve emulator patent which understood why the output transformer is so essential in valve amplifiers.
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You don't pay any attention to what I'm saying . I repeat I also have other 3 amplifier as reference. Total 4 amps. . So no I'm not get used by the sound because I always switch from one amp to the other 3. Sometimes I use an amp for 3 days and after that another amp for just one day and so on ..I always have 4 amps hooked to my soundcard.
When I first installed the caps in Yamaha A-700 the sound was really bad with poor highs and resolution compared to the other 3 amps.
When I first installed the caps in Yamaha A-700 the sound was really bad with poor highs and resolution compared to the other 3 amps.
This is long overdue, with a bit of luck this thread will now be closed along with some of his others. As a matter of interest, why are people engaging with the OP?
Robert, I think you are not who you pretend to be. Too many contradictions, you seem a reasonable intelligent person yet pretend to completely miss the points being made here. It's the same in a couple of other threads you're in.
I believe you really know quite well what's going on, but that you are trying to see how far you can get pulling our collective legs.
You wouldn't be the first. Nice try!
Jan
I believe you really know quite well what's going on, but that you are trying to see how far you can get pulling our collective legs.
You wouldn't be the first. Nice try!
Jan
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