Those 4 amps are all modded with the fallowing Cerafine, Silmic , KZs and FG and also KG in different proportions depending on each amp .
Technics SU-3500 mainly 90% KZs and a few FG. (a little hard on top end but very detailed and punchy)
Yamaha A-720 50% KZs and 50% Silmics plus some Mundorf (the top end is warm but very revealing )
Yamaha A-700 95% KZs and 5% Silmic plus 2 Elnas RJH 680uf 100v(a little hard on top end but very detailed and punchy similar to Technics SU-3500 but more spacious after a week break in )
NAD 306 30% Cerafine 30%KZ 30% Silmic10% some KGs with FG (very balanced sound after lots of mods each song sounds like crystal pieces playing in front of the listener so this one is very esoteric sound now)
Hitachi HA-8700 is on works ....
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Are you aware of some statistical rules that you need to apply to get relevant answers? I assumed that you'd have at least 4 identical amplifiers with different mods and i was ready to accept the result on such a low number just because i know it's possible to have it this way, but actually , for the sake of science you'd need at least 100 identical amplifiers with the mods done in a very specific order and all connected to an abx box to be able to draw a clear conclusion in a scientific manner.
About the yamaha a-700...i have a friend who's nuts about Yamaha models and he has that model too...but he replaced all his Yamaha stack with a home made amplifier which was way better then them, but he was not aware of that until he listened to that amp...when he returned to the yamahas ...he just couldn't stand it anymore...and he's a professional modder, as he's having about 50 000 euros worth of lecroy analyzers, a very talented electronics engineer, a top-notch theorist and also very passionate about audio designing dac's and other high end stuff...
Maybe you should simply let it go...
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Probably the highs where to hard on him sounding to bright like those titanium tweeters this being the only weakness of A-700 but this can be solved using some Silmics here and there in order to treat the highs character so swapping and playing with caps can alter the sound up to a certain degree. I bet that the amp he build that was beating A-700 sounded more warm but I don't think the separation and resolution of that amp project matched the A-700 resolution and separation ..but you will hear those only in a well treated room . In a normal room is very subjective to judge an amp .
Nelson Pass opened a thread especially regarding this caps subject
Best electrolytic capacitors
It seems that some will never believe that a Silmic 2 can beat a chinese 5 cents cap unless the 5 cents cap is defective or out of normal specs . I don't intend to attack anyone but I personally find this to be
. Usually I post very rare and I do amp mods very rare . One amp a year . So I'm not obsessed with the subject is just a rare activity that happens from time to time . Don't need to create a fake debate if you want to find more I posted the link above ...
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He might actually look at this post right now
))He has built(actually redesigned for his own use) an outstanding amplifier with 100 times less MEASURED distortions than ax 700:
SARA-amplificator de inalta performanta - Page 160 - Amplificatoare - ELFORUM - Forumul Electronistilor
SARA-amplificator de inalta performanta - Page 159 - Amplificatoare - ELFORUM - Forumul Electronistilor
SARA-amplificator de inalta performanta - Page 162 - Amplificatoare - ELFORUM - Forumul Electronistilor
That design was improved over a period of 9 years by a handful of people working on it, one of them being the pcb designer of a famous Hypex module... I listened only to the first commercial version 5 years ago against few 10k amplifiers on really high end speakers and it put them all to shame not just by measurements, but also by the clarity of sound...We were about 30 people at that show when we listened to that amp and there was not a single person who wouldn't agree on that...
You can actually ask him yourself about the ax700 vs the "lower quality " Sara amplifier..:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/245781-try-digital-2.html#post4566141
You may find him here too:
Probleme amplificator Yamaha AX700 - Amplificatoare - ELFORUM - Forumul Electronistilor
He knows enough English, you don't need to learn Romanian...although google translate can do it for you.
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I watched the link and I see he uses Nichicon KZ FG for that SARA like I do with my mods. So who's the smart guys and who's not ?..............
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I was referring to A-700 not AX-700 and I was saying right now it sound fatiguing to my ears but have amazing separation and 3D extension . Also every sound and detail is there right now but I can't listen because gives fatigue to my ears . The highs are to hard .
Probably that SARA amp was tested against an AX-700 bad modded or having the same original caps and SARA having a different EQ setting implemented . That SARA have 0 chance against my modded NAD-306 or Yamaha A-720. I don't like overkill boutique expo amps .
.I was referring to A-700 not AX-700 and I was saying right now it sound fatiguing to my ears but have amazing separation and 3D extension . Also every sound and detail is there right now but I can't listen because gives fatigue to my ears . The highs are to hard .
Probably that SARA amp was tested against an AX-700 bad modded or having the same original caps and SARA having a different EQ setting implemented . That SARA have 0 chance against my modded NAD-306 or Yamaha A-720. I don't like overkill boutique expo amps .
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No...The first model that i listened in 2014 was tested against some "audiophile" 10 000 euros amplifiers, he's just worked on a version of it last year with a friend of him , Sara original design was done by Raimond and PCB done by Alexmm...but forget it...You better talk with Sesebe about yamaha amplifiers...he had a whole stack of them the last time i went at his.
I'm using a lot of KZ and BS too as well as used panasonic FC(yes i get them out of high power(5...15kw) smps used for at least 6 years at max power so they might know what "burn in " means)...but that was not the point.
I'm using a lot of KZ and BS too as well as used panasonic FC(yes i get them out of high power(5...15kw) smps used for at least 6 years at max power so they might know what "burn in " means
)...but that was not the point.
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ok but is just impossible unless the tests was tricked somehow so he tweaked those 10000 eur amps to sound bad in order to create the illusion his amp is better .
Just saying is impossible . Usually the best amp is the one that amplifies the source and keeps the source intact rising only the volume of the signal and a 10000eur amp will do this with 100% accuracy .
But is not about how much it costs , Is about if you like the sound or not ..
Just saying is impossible . Usually the best amp is the one that amplifies the source and keeps the source intact rising only the volume of the signal and a 10000eur amp will do this with 100% accuracy .
But is not about how much it costs , Is about if you like the sound or not ..
There were just some other guys who brought the expensive amps at the show...we had about 3-4 hours of continuous listening on many amps.We started that session with measuring SARA thd and slew rate(about -105 db or so...), the other amps thd as well, much higher but "audiophile", then we listened to it for about 30...40 minutes, then we listened to other 4-5 amps .We could forget the first amp's sound if it was the case...Although now i'm totally into tape, vinyl and valves, i know that there's an equal value in ultra low thd amps if built well.
Probably that SARA amp added some subtle sound effects like special compression or limiting to the sound in order to sound better but this way the original sound was not only amplified but also compressed or limited while probably the other amps did just the amplification playing more fair ?.
So what was so special about that sound ?. The separation and extension of each instrument and detail was greater ?. Usually you can hear this only in a specially treated room . So the room was specially treated with huge bass traps , absorbers and sound diffusers ?. In a normal room you will hear only the sound signature being more warm , neutral or bright in which you won't be abble to hear the extension attributes the amp can offer .
I remember when I was a a child how quick I judged an amp based only on sound signature now knowing what acoustic treatment was during that time .
So what was so special about that sound ?. The separation and extension of each instrument and detail was greater ?. Usually you can hear this only in a specially treated room . So the room was specially treated with huge bass traps , absorbers and sound diffusers ?. In a normal room you will hear only the sound signature being more warm , neutral or bright in which you won't be abble to hear the extension attributes the amp can offer .
I remember when I was a a child how quick I judged an amp based only on sound signature now knowing what acoustic treatment was during that time .
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Yes I know quite well what's going on..During this time if someone have a strong opinion he is considered mad . 60 years ago such behavior was considered a virtue ....
It is the DC bias voltage which reforms an electroytic, not the music signal. If reforming is necessary then it can take place with no music playing at all. During reforming there is plenty of action taking place inside the cap, and it will generate a little heat. Have a think about what the word 'electrolytic' might mean!robert2017 said:
I didn't realise we have visitors from other planets on here. Welcome to Earth!
Maybe electronics works differently on your home planet?
I could not have put it better myself.
Yeaaa "right" ... so what amplifier and what speakers do you have ?. How do you define a high quality sound ?.
On our planet the way in which electrolytic caps reform themselves when given a bias voltage does not depend on exactly which audio system I have. Physics and electrochemistry do not work like that here. Actually, not just on our planet but also in our solar system and probably within our galaxy. I guess you come from far far away where the laws of science are a bit different? You can modify electrolytic oxide formation by changing your audio system?
Defining high quality sound is not a matter for me to do. I prefer high fidelity sound, whose meaning should surely be obvious?
Defining high quality sound is not a matter for me to do. I prefer high fidelity sound, whose meaning should surely be obvious?
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