Hello~ everyone!
There are several speaker cables below,
I want to use these as a crossover to units wire at speaker inside.
Which of the following is more suitable as a speaker inside wire,
If there are other better wires, please also recommend me, thank you!
1. Sweden SUPRA PLY 3.4 5N (2X3.4mm)
2. USA DH LABS OFH-14AWG 7N (2X2.0mm)
3. USA DH LABS Prelude >4N (2X4.0mm)
4. Germany Inakustik Excellence MSR 6N (2X4.0mm)
5. Germany Inakustik Excellence Atmos Air 6N (2X3.0mm)
6. Germany SOMMER MERIDIAN 240 3N (2X4mm)
7. Switzerland Gotham 50025 3N (2X2.5mm)
PS. My units are Accuton treble and midrange two-way bookshelf speaker,
currently using the speaker cable is SUPRA Quadrax & DH Labs banana plugs
There are several speaker cables below,
I want to use these as a crossover to units wire at speaker inside.
Which of the following is more suitable as a speaker inside wire,
If there are other better wires, please also recommend me, thank you!
1. Sweden SUPRA PLY 3.4 5N (2X3.4mm)
2. USA DH LABS OFH-14AWG 7N (2X2.0mm)
3. USA DH LABS Prelude >4N (2X4.0mm)
4. Germany Inakustik Excellence MSR 6N (2X4.0mm)
5. Germany Inakustik Excellence Atmos Air 6N (2X3.0mm)
6. Germany SOMMER MERIDIAN 240 3N (2X4mm)
7. Switzerland Gotham 50025 3N (2X2.5mm)
PS. My units are Accuton treble and midrange two-way bookshelf speaker,
currently using the speaker cable is SUPRA Quadrax & DH Labs banana plugs
As above look for a wire that is:
a] sufficiently thick (conductor cross-section area)
b] sufficiently flexible (that means stranded, but very fine stranded may be hard to connect)
c] easily stripable insulation
d] easy to make connections (tinned wires are easier to solder)
e] makes no audiophile claims
a] sufficiently thick (conductor cross-section area)
b] sufficiently flexible (that means stranded, but very fine stranded may be hard to connect)
c] easily stripable insulation
d] easy to make connections (tinned wires are easier to solder)
e] makes no audiophile claims
Hello,
I'll add my perspective to this one.
One thing for you to remember is that the actual circuit run is from the output on the amplifier board to the speaker crossover entry point. Most people think of it being just from back of amplifier to back of speaker box.
Thus, the wire run inside the box should closely resemble the speaker cable as much as possible. So whatever in your above list of 7 choices most closely resembles your Supra cable is the one to go with.
The wire runs from crossover output to speaker drivers is less critical but I like to use the same as the other run inside the speaker, if possible. As long as the crossover out to speaker driver is at least the same gauge as the voice coil gauge wire you should be okay.
The Accuton drivers you have are about the most expensive ones you can get, so the word cheap should not be any kind of consideration. With the small amount of wire needed, the cost just cannot be very much with whatever choice you go with.
Hi Dave,
You've questioned my three points for some reason. So I'll try to offer some explanation.
1. Okay, number 1 can be forgotten as it's largely irrelevant anyway.
2. The wire inside the box from the binding post connection to the crossover carries the same signal as the wire from the amp to the speaker box. I would think that using the same wire inside the box as outside, if practicable, is the best way to go. This makes perfect sense to me.
3. Well, I have used the same wire for everything inside the box in my speaker builds. However, voice coil wires are quite small gauge wires, and I think all that's really needed here is to just have wire the same gauge as the voice coil wire. It doesn't hurt to have larger, but might not matter.
BTW, have you ever made a speaker?
I've built a few complete speakers and have followed the above when I have done so, and they've come out quite well. So I've just related my own personal diy experience.
OK, you don't have a technical reason for your advice. "I did it and it worked for me" is like the man sitting on an English train tearing up newspapers to keep the elephants away; it clearly works because it is rare to see an elephant from an English train.
Not at all relevant, but yes I did make a speaker many years ago.
Not at all relevant, but yes I did make a speaker many years ago.
Btw, did you ever recone a speaker driver?
I did more than once.
And I saw the voice coil winding wire of tweeters as well as of woofers.
Guess what, this experience would turn your consideration of even speaker wire into absolutely pointless.
Agree.
Not indispensable , but it doesn´t hurt either so, yes, it makes sense.
Well, you will run into a problem there, it does matter.
Besides the unnecessary extra resistance added by using way too thin wiring (although considering the distances involved it might not hurt much) , the MAIN problem is current carrying capacity.
Voice coil sized wire , *outside* a voice coil, is absolutely inadequate to carry power to the speaker, so much so that it might easily act like a Fuse, overheating and melting
Typical Voice Coil wire diameters run between 0.16 and 0.25 mm diameter, current capacity thus being between 0.057A and 0.73 A .
Meaning between 0.26W and 4.2W into 8 ohm speakers.
Yet such speakers may be rated , say, from 15 to 250W RMS.
How come?
Standard wire current capacity is calculated considering wire temperature elevation above ambient temperature, plus resistive losses, and wire is considered *static* (not moving), cooled by conduction if enclosed in solid material, and convection if in free air.
Now voice coil wire stands, surprisingly, 10 to 100 times what "should" be expected.
It´s an intriguing fact, very important but ignored by most, until Fane in the 60's designed an experiment to measure voice coil temperature, real time while Audio was being played which is easier said than done.
After measuring, you can easily calculate the voice coil thermal resistance (as in a heat sink) which shows how heat is carried away from it and measured in Degrees C/W
Results were incredible at first, considering that the voice coil wire and former "touch nothing" (except the paper cone, not exactly prime quality heatsink material) and are necessarily surrounded by air to allow free movement.
And air is a terrible heat conductor (as shown by styrofoam: air bubbles encapsulated in plastic) BUT , air around voice coil is incredibly turbulent, it multiplies convection by orders of magnitude, and, in Fane Engineers own words: "behaves thermally as solid Silver"
That´s why voice coil wire can easily stand very high current (say 5A
for 100W into 4 ohms) but same gauge wire would *explode* if used for cabinet wiring.Well, I do .
Some 14000 since 1969.
I mean actual *speakers*, from scratch (sheet metal, steel bar and plates, stamping, punching, turning, magnetizing, the full works) , not speaker cabinets.
Hello
So there are
Go on then
You tell me after you've used them, I'd be interested to know
There are better wires, obviously I was bored but not that bored.
For me (Eastern Daylight time zone) the site says it was March 30 at 11:45PM, but it was surely April 1 somewhere.
I use something like this (I buy from Home Depot or Lowe's in the USA, though this looks like an even lower price, but I wonder about shipping cost):
12/2C Landscape Lighting Cable, 1000ft Spool | WireAndCableYourWay.com
I found the above link by googling:
low voltage landscape wire
That should get a source local to you, or at least something orderable on the Internet.
Looking at the Wikipedia article below, 12 gauge is about 2mm diameter, roughly equivalent to the smaller ones on your list. In general, larger diameter (smaller AWG gauge) is better, but 12 gauge is plenty unless the distance is over 50 feet or so.
American wire gauge - Wikipedia
You can calculate the dB loss through the wire by doing a resistive divider calculation between the wire resistance (multiply resistance-per-foot by the number of feet) and the speaker impedance. 0.1dB is probably okay, 1dB perhaps not.
The OP clearly has chosen wrong forum to start with...
It is extremely important what banana plugs are engaged! You all have no idea!
I am joking.
I'm usually connecting my class-D amplifiers with transducers inside of my speakers using 20-40 cm piece of 2x1.5mm^2 or more frequently 2x0.75 mm^2 mains cabling. Important part of the circuit as hell. The really audiophile part of this task usually takes place when I am stripping it off from common insulation and twisting them tightly. Such a wires can look really 'expensive' when they are carefully twisted and connected with JST sockets!
When piece of wires is longer than 40 cm I regret that I've made wrong design of the speakers.
It is extremely important what banana plugs are engaged! You all have no idea!
I am joking.
I'm usually connecting my class-D amplifiers with transducers inside of my speakers using 20-40 cm piece of 2x1.5mm^2 or more frequently 2x0.75 mm^2 mains cabling. Important part of the circuit as hell. The really audiophile part of this task usually takes place when I am stripping it off from common insulation and twisting them tightly. Such a wires can look really 'expensive' when they are carefully twisted and connected with JST sockets!
When piece of wires is longer than 40 cm I regret that I've made wrong design of the speakers.
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Perhaps instead of mocking me in your response you should have offered a technical reason about wire inside the speaker box explaining my errors.
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Agree.
Not indispensable , but it doesn´t hurt either so, yes, it makes sense.
Well, you will run into a problem there, it does matter.
Besides the unnecessary extra resistance added by using way too thin wiring (although considering the distances involved it might not hurt much) , the MAIN problem is current carrying capacity.
Voice coil sized wire , *outside* a voice coil, is absolutely inadequate to carry power to the speaker, so much so that it might easily act like a Fuse, overheating and melting
Typical Voice Coil wire diameters run between 0.16 and 0.25 mm diameter, current capacity thus being between 0.057A and 0.73 A .
Meaning between 0.26W and 4.2W into 8 ohm speakers.
Yet such speakers may be rated , say, from 15 to 250W RMS.
How come?
Standard wire current capacity is calculated considering wire temperature elevation above ambient temperature, plus resistive losses, and wire is considered *static* (not moving), cooled by conduction if enclosed in solid material, and convection if in free air.
Now voice coil wire stands, surprisingly, 10 to 100 times what "should" be expected.
It´s an intriguing fact, very important but ignored by most, until Fane in the 60's designed an experiment to measure voice coil temperature, real time while Audio was being played which is easier said than done.
After measuring, you can easily calculate the voice coil thermal resistance (as in a heat sink) which shows how heat is carried away from it and measured in Degrees C/W
Results were incredible at first, considering that the voice coil wire and former "touch nothing" (except the paper cone, not exactly prime quality heatsink material) and are necessarily surrounded by air to allow free movement.
And air is a terrible heat conductor (as shown by styrofoam: air bubbles encapsulated in plastic) BUT , air around voice coil is incredibly turbulent, it multiplies convection by orders of magnitude, and, in Fane Engineers own words: "behaves thermally as solid Silver"
That´s why voice coil wire can easily stand very high current (say 5A
Well, I do .
Some 14000 since 1969.
I mean actual *speakers*, from scratch (sheet metal, steel bar and plates, stamping, punching, turning, magnetizing, the full works) , not speaker cabinets.
Thank you for your detailed explanations Mr. Fahey.
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I live about 5 km from Supras headquarter.
For about 20 years ago I was hired to adjust an extruder, a thing that isolates the wire with PVC. A MMA welding machine, grinder and a blowtorch was what I used
It was interesting to see when the made the shielding. A machine with 8 arms and 16 wires rotated and contra-rotated at the same time, the cable came in on top and went out in the bottom shielded and ready.
I don't know witch cables they manufacture there today. I guess that they're made somewhere in far east ?
Anyway, I've used some of them. Supra ply 2,5 - 4,0 and lorad 3,4? (with rectangular wires) and I can say that I can not hear any difference between them or a cheap 2,5 or 4mm cable.
I have been building speakers for 25 years and used them inside and outside the cabinets in PA and HiFi, with Class A, AB, D and H -amps.
At home I have a 7.2 system with Beyma chassies and it's of course best to be on the safe side, so it's all wired up with Supra ply 2,5 for mid/high and ply 4,0 for subwoofers. Just in case
If it makes any difference - I don't know, and I will not swap cables and wrestle with the cable channels again
It's like trying to force a 2 inch **** thru a 1 inch pipe
Figge
For about 20 years ago I was hired to adjust an extruder, a thing that isolates the wire with PVC. A MMA welding machine, grinder and a blowtorch was what I used
It was interesting to see when the made the shielding. A machine with 8 arms and 16 wires rotated and contra-rotated at the same time, the cable came in on top and went out in the bottom shielded and ready.
I don't know witch cables they manufacture there today. I guess that they're made somewhere in far east ?
Anyway, I've used some of them. Supra ply 2,5 - 4,0 and lorad 3,4? (with rectangular wires) and I can say that I can not hear any difference between them or a cheap 2,5 or 4mm cable.
I have been building speakers for 25 years and used them inside and outside the cabinets in PA and HiFi, with Class A, AB, D and H -amps.
At home I have a 7.2 system with Beyma chassies and it's of course best to be on the safe side, so it's all wired up with Supra ply 2,5 for mid/high and ply 4,0 for subwoofers. Just in case
If it makes any difference - I don't know, and I will not swap cables and wrestle with the cable channels again
It's like trying to force a 2 inch **** thru a 1 inch pipe
Figge
Let's "throw some wood into the fire" (Portuguese expression)
For me, the best wire would be the thickest You can find and also Silver made, since it has the smallest resistance or is it conductivity ? Platin or Gold perhaps ?
On PA speakers I use 2.5sqmm for interconnects, and inside sub cabinets I use 4sqmm.
On my home theatre system I use Supra cable for interconnects. Don't ask me why...
Come on. On many consumer amplifiers You'll often find lower than 1sqmm cables inside. How much Ampere and length are we talking here ?
For me, the best wire would be the thickest You can find and also Silver made, since it has the smallest resistance or is it conductivity ? Platin or Gold perhaps ?
On PA speakers I use 2.5sqmm for interconnects, and inside sub cabinets I use 4sqmm.
On my home theatre system I use Supra cable for interconnects. Don't ask me why...
Come on. On many consumer amplifiers You'll often find lower than 1sqmm cables inside. How much Ampere and length are we talking here ?
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