Burson Supreme Sound Opamp V5 experience

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Burson V5i vs V6 vivid

Thanks to Burson Audio & Charlie for the samples!

Burson V5i vs V6 vivid (and my V5 :) )
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Just out of the box, not burned in state:
There are two different characters playing music. But all the music is presented by a full bodied instruments and real voices, the sound is really impressive. I found the bass area a bit uncontrolled at the moment, and seems not precise enough, hopefully is changing during burn in period. Interestingly the resolution is still improving, but already is very promising. Overall it a bit flat and muddy. (I do have a Burson V5 to compare too.)
It is simply “brutally” heavy with high dynamics and resolution. In contrast to V6 vivid, V5i is not as natural and less bodied, but it is still involving. V6 vivid shows a huge mass, compared to V5i. Listening to V5i is better by forced the volume up.
100 hours later
I found a big improvements in all area listening to both opa with much smoother presentation. The bass improved a lot, right now is a heavy enough and punchier. Unfortunately in some cases the V5i in my setup warmed up and oscillated.
The space opened by V5i into the back, and the stereo image is good enough. V5i is strong in the middle, and highs, and the female vocals are nicely clear. There are still enough bass as well. The classical music is just amazing.
The V6 is very vivid, and highly realistic. The detail, and resolution is just huge. The instruments and the musicians are just in front of you in a real space. The music is very involving and lifelike, very natural at the warm side of the representation.
Instruments:
Raspberry Pi/MoOde player, Roksan Attessa CD player, ESS9038Q2M modded DAC, GainClone with Pedja Rogic buffer
Listened music:
Doors - Riders on the Storm
Filippa Giordano – Habanera
James Carter – Chasin the Gypsy
Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio – Midnight Sugar
Summary:
I recommend both of them! :)

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
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Hi Guys,
Would you like to try our opamps and share your experience with the rest of the Diy-Audio community?. We are almost ready to send the samples for the first week of January. Please pm me if you are interested.
Warm regards,

Hi,
You are very generous to send Opamps to Diy community. Your V5 Opamps were superb as I posted in my review. I wouldn't mind few dual V6 opamps, if I am still eligible.

Regards
Sachin
 
Burson V5i & TDA1541A DAC

I received a quad set of single Burson V5i Opamps. I used them in a TDA 1541A Analogmetric DAC that I just finished building (it's still bread boarded). It's kind of a long story so I'm going to post the shorter review first, followed by the long version.


SPEAKERS
Linn Keilidh's with the original tweeters replaced with ESS AMT's

AMPLIFIER
DIY version of Nelson Pass First Watt F5 using Toshiba 2SK1530 / 2SJ201

PREAMP
DIY version of Bruce Heran Forewatt with beefed up power supply to handle 12bh7 tubes

DAC
TDA1541A Analogmetric DAC ( bread boarded ) run in oversample mode. I did not use the onboard input transformer.

CD PLAYERS
Onkyo C70-30 used as transport
Rotel 955AX, California Audio Labs Tercet MK-IV

MUSIC
Bill Frisell "Intercontinentals" Elliot Smith "Either or" Calexico "Garden Ruin"
Ben Harper "Both sides of the gun" Ray Kane "Punahele" Joe Pass "Paulinho da costa" Zero Seven "Simple things" Air "10,000 hz Legend" Dead Combo "Quando a alma nah e pequena vol. II" Ray Lamontagne "Ouroboros" Melissa Ethridge "Memphis rock and soul" Calexico/Iron and Wine "In the reins" George Winston "Plains" Windham Hill Records "Guitar Sampler" Alt J "Relaxer"

ROOM
A two walled room that opens into a larger living room. Not ideal by any means. The speakers are too close to the side walls but I can swivel the tweeters, which helps. I set up in this spot just to test the F5. It sounded so good it has lived there ever since.
 
Room and Rig

Here is the setup.
 

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Short Story - Burson V5i Review

The Burson V5i's proved to be a very nice addition to my setup. It did not take long to notice the improvements. The first thing I noticed was an increase in low level detail. Details I had not noticed before were magnified with a clean, clear presentation. Kick drums had more "punch" and seemed to pressurize the room, even at lower volume levels. Snare drums had improved "scratch" while cymbals "shimmered" with extended decay. Sympathetic string resonance on acoustic guitars became more obvious. Location recordings had more reverb that helped define the space. All music had better overall dynamics.

The Burson Opamps made pretty big improvements in my system. Of course these are all my subjective impressions. Overall, I am very pleased with the V5i's. I would recommend them with the Analogmetric ONLY IF you are willing to do the extra work to make these Opamps happy on this board. They WILL NOT WORK with this board as is. I found the extra work worth it. If you want to know the whole story read on.
 

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Its just a shame Burson are a faceless company who are not prepared to interact with its customers.

Even though i was willing to pay, not look for free samples, i have had no responce from messages on this forum, PM's and email direct for over 2 months.

If this is what i should expect for support or if the product is at fault then its is far from what a consumer should expect.

I am now getting the feeling these favourable reviews are bought in some way
 
The Long Story

What to do when a trusty old friend starts to get a bit long in the tooth? In the case of my old trusty Rotel 955AX CD player I decided to try and give it a new lease on life. A few years ago I replaced the power supply caps, added more TDA1541A decoupling caps, put the transformer outboard and replaced the original NE5532 Opamps with OPA2211's. The changes improved the sound considerably. Everything was great for a few years until the Rotel started to develop other issues with the display and disc carriage. What to do? I figured a good starting point would be the Philips TDA1541A DAC chip that was at the heart of the Rotel.

It is well known that this is an old DAC chip that, after some searching, I realized has quite a fan base. There seem to be many ideas on how best use the old chip. I decided to try the Analogmetric TDA1541A PCB. This board is pretty inexpensive and available. The layout seemed to have enough room on it to follow traces easily incase I needed to do any moding.

This board has very mixed reviews. Errors in the schematics etc. but the PCB's are workable but not necessarily optimized. Despite its issues it seemed to have been favorably reviewed by some with enough good documentation of successful builds to get me going. So I built it and it worked. This was my first digital project so I was pretty happy that it actually made music. I had ordered the PCB only (not the kit) so I picked all of the components. The whole build was rewarding.

Successfully implementing the Burson V5i's was not a simple task. The Opamps that I initially used for the build were the lowly UA741's. Mainly because I had some on hand and didn't care if their souls were let free in a puff of smoke.

After the DAC was functioning well with no issues that I could detect with my ears I replaced the UA741's with the Burson's. As soon as the disc started playing I could tell something was very wrong. I could hear the music (barely)
but the dominant sound was static and a strange fluttering sound that seemed to fluctuate with the frequency of the music. Fearing for the Burson's I shut it down immediately.

Not having much experience with digital I didn't know where to start. Time for some professional help. I contacted Burson's Tech Dept. The tech that helped me was very patient with my limited knowledge and after several emails he advised that it might need additional local decoupling from the power supply. His suggestion was to add a 100uf electrolytics across the positive and negative pins of each Opamp being careful to observe the polarity. I made the changes and cautiously turned the volume up. Instead of static being the first sound it was music. Great, time for burn in. The Burson Tech advised 100 hrs. of burn in so I turned the volume way down and let it run. After a day and a night I went to check on the progress. I gave it some volume and noticed something that I had not noticed on the first listen. The static sound had not completely gone. After more careful listening I could hear it hiding in the cymbals and snare drums smearing the sound. More work needed to be done.

What followed was a couple weeks of research, adding and removing components. Listening.....more adding and removing.....

My conclusion is that the Bursons (being very fast) requires VERY clean power. The cleaner the better. Every step that I made in that direction made the V5i's happier. Currently, I have decoupled both the positive and negative pins of each Opamp to ground using about 1uf's worth of film caps. I also added small 0.1uf ceramic caps in parallel with 0.1uf film caps locally to each Opamp for further decoupling. I have increased the power supply capacitors and added some ceramic caps in parallel with existing film caps in the final filter section of the onboard power supply. Each additional decoupling yielded better performance so why stop with the Opamps? A pretty big improvement was realized after the addition of 0.1uf film caps directly to the power pins of the TDA1541A.

I think more work could be done but for now I can't hear any smearing or static so I will live with it as is for now. But I'm already itching to try different things that might improve the music.

The whole build has been very educational. Having gone from a non working DAC to one that sounds better than anything that I have had before is quite rewarding plus, with all the research, I have learned a lot about digital music reproduction and can actually follow what people are talking about in that area (as long as it's not too deep). The folks at Burson were great to deal with and I really enjoy their product.
 
Burson V5i's on board

Here are pics of the top and bottom of the boards as I am using them now.
The big output caps have been removed so you can actually see the boards.
All the alligator clips and leads will be removed or shortened once I am happy with it.
 

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Your experience with Burson is unfortunate.
I can only say that my contact with them has been very different. They always got back to me fairly quickly. When I asked them for some help they were very responsive, taking the time to look over my schematic and sent descriptive pictures to go along with their explanations.

Yes, they do sound good to me but it took some doing to get them there.
 
A few years back there was a version produced that didn’t have the typical voltage threshold that a lot of equipment tends to use. The documentation stated the limits, but many were subjected to higher voltages and failed. As far as I know, these were all replaced by Burson.

A higher voltage model superseded the earlier ones, as I am sure there was a loss. however I am still using mine in an appropriate application daily.
 
The latest data sheet that I could find showed +-16v as the max. The voltage on the board I used was, luckily, adjustable so Im using them at +-14v. I understand that there might be some advantages to using them at higher voltages but right now I'm "playing it safe". I might push it up some later to see if I can hear a difference.
 
Follow up review of the V6 Vivid
For background and system description + pictures see my earlier post in this thread,

In my last review, I had only the V6 amps for part of the frequency register, above 1 KHz covering the upper mids and the tweeters.
I actually felt that that really made a difference in sq compared to the LM833N that was used before, giving me some flow and naturalness, less sharp sound to the music that I think wasn't there before.

Now I have been using the V6 Vivid opamps for the whole frequency range for a while and it is harder to make a certain conclusion if the two added op amps did much of a difference.
I believe there are some more improvements but they are smaller this time.

Here is a picture showing all four op amps on my Najda DSP.
IMG_20190227_140301.jpg

So I thought the best way to know if there is a difference is to switch back to the original op amps and to have a listen with those with the bursons fresh in memory,
Said and done, I changed all the bursons to the original LM833N.
The feeling is that the sound got dryer, less spatial, less engaging.
Played through some tracks and there was something missing. I didn't thought I really would be able to tell the difference.

Putting back the Burson V6 Vivid amps and the sound came back to the way I had gotten used to.
More sweet and engaging.
Question is if the sound of the V6 Vivid are more correct, Its like something is added to the music. Or perhaps its just not hidden anymore.

However I like the sound of the burons amps a lot more so they will stay in the system.

Now I must say that that I was alone when I did the listening with no one else to confirm what I heard. And I knew what op amps was in all the time,
Its hard to do a double blind listening test when you are only one person.

Big thanks to SSAudio letting me review the Burson Supreme Audio V6 Vivid. I do recommend them highly.
 
Hi guys,
Hurry up!. We are ready to send the samples for the next month (V5i / V6). Please let me know if you have a good project!. Please pm me.
Best regards,

Hi friends
IC3 and IC4 of deq2496 were used in output buffer
amplifier sony ta fe600r player ibasso dx90
I tested the deq2496 at flat settings when you plug it into the device, the AB class will sound like A class from A amplifier. A remarkable point,
The V6 Vivid Opamps have a very vivid voice. Neutral and detailed sound with a tight bass effect dynamic field perfectow and medium tones are very accurate and have exactly as needed. Bass is quite low and deep
The V6 Vivid has a clean and clear treble response.
Highly dynamic, impressive and detailed musical.
 

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Its just a shame Burson are a faceless company who are not prepared to interact with its customers.

Even though i was willing to pay, not look for free samples, i have had no responce from messages on this forum, PM's and email direct for over 2 months.

If this is what i should expect for support or if the product is at fault then its is far from what a consumer should expect.

I am now getting the feeling these favourable reviews are bought in some way
Alas this is common practice in the audio industry and has been so for decades - give freebies to the less critical individuals who publish gushing reviews using adjectives rather than numbers. Don't give freebies to those who mention double-blind listening tests or measured speficiations. Not exactly payment, but not exactly ethical either...

Burson haven't responded to my technical queries other than to claim a PM was sent to me, which wasn't (but it looks good in the public forum to claim that). Of course I was asking about the input referred current noise, which was lacking from the (cursory) datasheet of one of their products. I can only conclude its missing because its a poor performer and they are allergic to admitting it.
 
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A quick & dirty (and completely objective and unscientific) review of the Burson V5i-D op amps:

I replaced the dual OPA627 op-amps (on Brown Dog adapters) in my modified Adcom GDA-600 DAC to see how they performed (the OPA627 op-amps were an upgrade from the original Adcom 7AA dual op-amps). The sound was very similar to the OPA627 - good bass extension, good transient response, good soundstaging. Switching between the two (easy with DIP sockets) and listening to the same tracks with the same volume settings, indicated little to no subjective difference between the two. Reverting back to the Adcom 7AA op amps, however, was a different story. Soundstage collapsed, mids were grainier and highs were rolled off. Switching back to the Burson reverted to the previous state, and switching back to the OPA627 from the Burson revealed no notable change in audio quality.

Given the similarity between the OPA627 and the Burson, it really comes down to price-point and ease-of-use. The quad of OPA627au plus the Brown Dog adapters is approximately $40 more expensive than the Burson v5i-D ($110 vs $69), plus you have to (very carefully) solder the OPA627au SO8s to the Brown Dog adapters (which is a pain in the *** given the size and sensitivity to heat of the op-amps). If you hire someone to assemble them for you, assume you'll be paying for about an hour of labor, which adds another $30 to the overall cost). So essentially, with the Burson, you get (at least to my ears) virtually identical audio performance at approximately 50% of the cash inlay. That makes it a no-brainer - the Burson is a better deal.

EQUIPMENT:

Raspberry Pi3 / HiFiBerry Digi+PRO (digital source)
Adcom GDA-600 DAC
Yamaha C4 preamplifier
Heathkit W4-AM - PP triode EL34
Altec 614 tallboys (Altec 414z / Altec 808-8b / Altec 32C)
NHT 1259 subwoofer

MUSIC:

She & Him - Volume One (FLAC)
Nick Drake – Bryter Layter (FLAC)
Wynton Marsalis Quartet - Live at Blues Alley (FLAC)
New Order - Substance (FLAC)
Belle Brigade - S/T (320k MP3)

Postscript: I would like to scope and see the measurements of the Adcom with the original 7AA op amps, the dual OPA627s, and the Burson v5i-D to see what the measured effects are of what I heard in my analysis. Unfortunately, I don't own a scope.
 
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