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Power Resistor Inductance Measurements
Power Resistor Inductance Measurements
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:36 PM   #31
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsrsb View Post
The only place in audio that resistor inductance is significant is the very low value emitter resistor in a power amplifier
Yes, it would take a lot of inductance to be significant with higher resistances.
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Old 21st September 2019, 12:02 AM   #32
johnego is offline johnego  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Yes, it would take a lot of inductance to be significant with higher resistances.
Yes, it would take a new Physics in order for resistors to significantly sound different. Read any resistor shootout thread, it is very scary, like a bunch of liars hang around together.
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Old 21st September 2019, 08:46 AM   #33
ThetaII is offline ThetaII  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by johnego View Post
Yes, it would take a new Physics in order for resistors to significantly sound different. Read any resistor shootout thread, it is very scary, like a bunch of liars hang around together.
Dear John. That is quite rude to suggest people that can hear differences between types of resistors in a crossover are liars. Whether it is due to inductance or other factors in the construction of a resistor, the differences are there to be heard quite clearly.

As I have previously said - Anyone who doubts this, is welcome to visit me and I will demononstrate this effect quite easily since my crossover is on an open external board and it takes me seconds to swap out a resistor. Or, if you are too far away from the midlands UK, try it for yourself - compare equal values of say a kiwame 5W carbon film (or a metal oxide resistor) to an ohmite 5W AG series wirewound or mills 5W wirewound - the difference is fairly obvious.

There is also quite a difference in sound between carbon film and metal oxide.

I haven't been to the moon, but I accept people have landed on it.
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Old 21st September 2019, 10:23 AM   #34
johnego is offline johnego  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by ThetaII View Post
Dear John. That is quite rude to suggest people that can hear differences between types of resistors in a crossover are liars. Whether it is due to inductance or other factors in the construction of a resistor, the differences are there to be heard quite clearly.
Relax, I can hear the difference too
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Old 21st September 2019, 10:36 AM   #35
ThetaII is offline ThetaII  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by johnego View Post
Relax, I can hear the difference too
..you got me
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Old 21st September 2019, 11:02 AM   #36
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Srsly, nothing better to do
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Old 21st September 2019, 06:15 PM   #37
jneutron is offline jneutron  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDF View Post
18 gauge diameter is 0.1024 cm, from
American wire gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plugging that into a wire inductance calculator assuming approximately 90cm length:
Inductance of a Straight Wire: A Calculator

Expected result is 1334 nH. MLSSA measured 1270nH, pretty close.
Wow, what an old thread.

I apparently missed this response back then...

While the theoretical inductance of a straight length of wire can be calculated, it has no use. Current requires a return path. Without a complete path loop, there is no current with which to measure an inductance.

Measurement of a single length of wire for inductance requires you form a loop. And it is that loop that is providing the inductance not the length of wire.

To measure resistors for inductance the first thing you have to do is zero the meter with a short in place of the resistor, the short having the same physical length as the resistor to be tested. The shorted reading can be used to auto-zero the inductance meter, or the value can be written down, and later subtracted from the resistor inductance value.
I've successfully done this all the way down to 250 pico henries, but that level of measure cannot be done accurately in the audio band due to the very low reactance, the lowest I could go was 100 Khz.

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Old 23rd September 2019, 05:59 PM   #38
Mark Tillotson is online now Mark Tillotson
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Originally Posted by ThetaII View Post
As I have previously said - Anyone who doubts this, is welcome to visit me and I will demononstrate this effect quite easily since my crossover is on an open external board and it takes me seconds to swap out a resistor.

Not a double blind test then? Build a double-bind test machine and measure something real we might take you seriouesly, but expectation bias is truly a massive effect and can only be eliminated with double-blind approach.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:40 PM   #39
ThetaII is offline ThetaII  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Mark Tillotson View Post
Not a double blind test then? Build a double-bind test machine and measure something real we might take you seriouesly, but expectation bias is truly a massive effect and can only be eliminated with double-blind approach.

You obviously don't trust your own ears then?

Would you be able to explain to me the use of the term 'expectation bias' when in reference to just swapping resistors in a crossover, having no idea or expectation of how they will sound? Surely that quip is only potentially relevant for situations such as when somebody is auditioning something new and supposedly better than what they have?



I would like to believe that most people don't get sucked into that scenario ..but that scenario is far from the simple experiment I have been conducting. I had no vested interest in any particular resistors sonic affects one way or the other - I just observed there were differences.


I trust my ears - not what is written about how something should or does sound. Theory doesn't always match practice ..unless complete and flawless
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Old 25th September 2019, 03:00 PM   #40
Mark Tillotson is online now Mark Tillotson
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You clearly have no idea about expectation bias, yet its the dominant effect is most listening tests (which is why double-blind testing is essential).

There's quite an illuminating test you can do using a single recording replayed various times through the same equipment - only you explain each time that you've reconnected the amps etc and identify the equipment differently each time. Everyone will make their prejudices very visible as they base their assessment not on what they hear, but on what they expect to hear, despite it being the very same recording every time.

Expectation bias cannot be cured other than by removing the knowledge of what you are listening to. You cannot allow for it, cancel it out or whatever, the brain definitely doesn't play fair.

And no, you cannot trust your own ears. Google "McGurk effect"


You will find what people can actually hear is not the same as what they claim they can hear.

Last edited by Mark Tillotson; 25th September 2019 at 03:03 PM.
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