Humans are completely incapable of having no expectation I'm afraid, psychology doesn't work like that. When changing a resistor without any suspicion that the sounds would change you have a belief that the sound will not change, otherwise you'd not be surprized if it did change. Most people's brains trust their expectations much more than their actual hearing - the McGurk effect being a great example where the visual cues dominate auditory ones, even when the conscious mind knows the trick, the effect still works.
The classic expectation bias happens when you spend money on a product, but it turns out worse than the cheaper version you are replacing. Most people refuse to accept this and define the product as better. People hate to admit to themselves they are wrong. The story of the emperor's new clothes is the classic fable about such hubris.
The classic expectation bias happens when you spend money on a product, but it turns out worse than the cheaper version you are replacing. Most people refuse to accept this and define the product as better. People hate to admit to themselves they are wrong. The story of the emperor's new clothes is the classic fable about such hubris.
Thank you for agreeing with me. By your definition, if I was experiencing expectation bias, then I would be in denial that there was any change in sound when I changed the resistors (as that was my expectation) ..which is exactly what I didn't do
I meant if it _really_ sounded different, even expectation bias can be overcome when there's an obvious difference, its what takes over when the difference is too small to easily perceive.
If you expect no change, and there's a slight change (which could be detected using careful ABX testing), you can easily not notice the change. This happens with old equipment gradually aging and going out-of-bias, or rising noise level, or whatever - the changes are small and gradual, you don't notice (but if the deterioration was instant you'd notice easily)
If you expect no change, and there's a slight change (which could be detected using careful ABX testing), you can easily not notice the change. This happens with old equipment gradually aging and going out-of-bias, or rising noise level, or whatever - the changes are small and gradual, you don't notice (but if the deterioration was instant you'd notice easily)
If you only move your head half an inch between the takes, you will actually hear a difference, and it will have nothing to do with any resistor. I came here looking for info on whether I should buy just any ordinary power resistor for a crossover, or go with base level "audio" resistors. In order to find that info, I will now read the rest of this discussion.
That may well be true, depending on the setup and environment you are listening in, but I found the audible differences between resistors, parallel and in series had a more noticable effect than small movements of the listening position.
I guess there will always be doubters for what ever reason - I don't understand why they think a huge number of people just make up fictional statements about their audible experiences ..what would be the point? (barring those that actually have an interest in any of the said manufacturing companies of course)
As far as I am concerned, if you have a fairly controlled environment and have done extensive listening to a decent system, it becomes easier to detect small changes in sound.
I understand the point Mark Tillotson was making with regard to 'expected sound' and I'm sure this happens in certain circumstances, especially when listening to an expensive piece of kit in a hifi demo room ..but not so much when comparing relatively cheap components and wondering 'is there a difference?'
What I would say with regard to resistors is since they are relatively inexpensive compared to caps, surely even for doubters, its got to be worth spending a small amount just to find out for yourself?
So all I have to say, whilst looking for my can opener, is Pathaudio resistors ..oh wow wow wow
..I couldn't see an icon showing a can of worms being opened - damn
A more pertinent question is whether hearing remains unaltered throughout a person's life. We know for certainty certain high frequencies cease to be audible. The same thing seems to happen also at the lowest frequencies. At least this is what happens to most people in the normal range.
Does the audible spectrum remain continuous with ageing? It is not out of this world to have some sensors in the middle frequencies which stop functioning or die. Hearing tests show a normal person can be deaf to certain limited frequencies.
I think it is wasted effort to make a sound system perform beyond the hearing capabilities of its users.
Does the audible spectrum remain continuous with ageing? It is not out of this world to have some sensors in the middle frequencies which stop functioning or die. Hearing tests show a normal person can be deaf to certain limited frequencies.
I think it is wasted effort to make a sound system perform beyond the hearing capabilities of its users.
With that attitude, humanity would still be living in the dark ages - trying things with an open mind, or just for the sake of it, has lead to some of the greatest discoveries.
..and regarding "useless opinion" - well, that's your opinion.
Normal power resistors is all you require, choose from reputable manufacturers such as Vishay, Yageo, Ohmite.
You can find non-inductive types from these manufacturers without the audiograde price tag.
Hehe - I agree ..I was just pointing out that some things are discovered by pure curiosity since cbdb's comment implies that curiosity does not exist.
Wrong. Read it again. I didnt say not to try things I said we try different things because we expect a different result. This implies expectation bias. Why would you try different resistors if you think they all sound the same? Your ego( how great you think your hearing is ) seems to prevent you from understanding this.
My ego? - bit rude and unfounded ..and not sure why you have to resort to that.
You give two examples - 1) If you don't think they will sound different, why would you bother testing?, and 2) If you think they will sound different, you will have expectation bias.
You have not allowed for a 3rd scenario of 'having no idea what they will sound like, but are curious to find out if there is any difference' - hence my comment about no curiosity option.
You give two examples - 1) If you don't think they will sound different, why would you bother testing?, and 2) If you think they will sound different, you will have expectation bias.
You have not allowed for a 3rd scenario of 'having no idea what they will sound like, but are curious to find out if there is any difference' - hence my comment about no curiosity option.
Haha, but instead of looking like 'Hundreds and Thousands' - that's what it was cost to do
Hi EuroChamp
Yes, I had purchased 3 pairs at the time and was very impressed with them - clear and uncoloured to my ears. However, they are now more than double the price I paid, so not sure if I would buy them again unless I found a suitcase full of money.
And sadly for finance reasons, I will not be trying the Mundorf M-Resist Ultra's anytime soon either.
And what does THAT mean?
Show before/after frequency response to show changes ... if any exists that is, beyond expectation bias.
By the way, "brand" is not a parameter.