The entire 12AU7 input buffer stage (before the selector switch) does not have a useful electrical function,
and could be bypassed easily. Even if you like the way it sounds, there would still be another stage just like it
after the voltage amplifier stage.
Yeah this is what Richard Grey just told me today at his shop,, as he looked over the schematic. ~~there are some issues with the design~ might be better to make mods~~. However, he asks *how do you like the sound?~~ I love it,, then he sees no reason to make any mods,,not even upgrades, He is doing the res swap, just as a favor, as he sees no reason to swap out the jadis metal resistors, although they are now near 20 yrs in age.... There are some DPL owners who say the aux out sounds superior to the cd out with AU buffer stage,, ,, But post Mundorf upgrade,,I found the cd out AU buffer had a edge on the AUX out. Maybe pre upgrade that was the case,, We took out the 3 1uf caps per channel and placed ina 3.3 uf Mundorf Silvergold EVO Oil.
did the same with the 3 orange caps, took out 3 2.2 installed a single 6.8uf per channel. ,,anyway back to topic,
Resistors.
can you see how the resistors in the 470k section, will influence sonic.s
Here i will go with
Audio Note Tantalum.
I can not find a Metal 470k,, so maybe its not a bad idea to add in some ~spice~~ with tantalum's in the 470k circuit.
Not sure what the 470k res purpose is in the circuit..??
and could be bypassed easily. Even if you like the way it sounds, there would still be another stage just like it
after the voltage amplifier stage.
Yeah this is what Richard Grey just told me today at his shop,, as he looked over the schematic. ~~there are some issues with the design~ might be better to make mods~~. However, he asks *how do you like the sound?~~ I love it,, then he sees no reason to make any mods,,not even upgrades, He is doing the res swap, just as a favor, as he sees no reason to swap out the jadis metal resistors, although they are now near 20 yrs in age.... There are some DPL owners who say the aux out sounds superior to the cd out with AU buffer stage,, ,, But post Mundorf upgrade,,I found the cd out AU buffer had a edge on the AUX out. Maybe pre upgrade that was the case,, We took out the 3 1uf caps per channel and placed ina 3.3 uf Mundorf Silvergold EVO Oil.
did the same with the 3 orange caps, took out 3 2.2 installed a single 6.8uf per channel. ,,anyway back to topic,
Resistors.
can you see how the resistors in the 470k section, will influence sonic.s
Here i will go with
Audio Note Tantalum.
I can not find a Metal 470k,, so maybe its not a bad idea to add in some ~spice~~ with tantalum's in the 470k circuit.
Not sure what the 470k res purpose is in the circuit..??
its all a load of old cobblers.
a resistor that changes the sound is a duff resistor !
If you mean the 464k resistors, they all serve to discharge the coupling caps, a safety and cosmetic issue. Value is not critical: 270k - 1Meg would work fine too.
The Shinkoh are great, so maybe the new AN are great too, but at that price i would rather go for resolution, rather than beauty and use Z-foils where technically possible.
Looking at that preamp circuit and scratching my head i cannot avoid thinking of silk purses. For times like this it is useful to have a high quality passive attenuator at hand.
And that buffer stage... A simple wire jumper in the empty socket will allow to listen while bypassing it, a two minute job
There are some 330k shinkoh on ebay, if youblike to try.
Enjoy!
2PCS SHINKOH 330,-Kohm NOS TAF resistors Japan made 1/2W 1% Tantalum | eBay
Tino
Enjoy!
2PCS SHINKOH 330,-Kohm NOS TAF resistors Japan made 1/2W 1% Tantalum | eBay
Tino
If you mean the 464k resistors, they all serve to discharge the coupling caps, a safety and cosmetic issue. Value is not critical: 270k - 1Meg would work fine too.
Takman Metal Rey offers
240k
300k
360k
so are you saying we can use any of these 3 in the 470k spot?
Richard Grey is doing the tech work, gotta ask him on this swap.
I see others are bringing up the Visahy Zfoils,,,
Takman Metal Rey offers
240k
300k
360k
so are you saying we can use any of these 3 in the 470k spot?
Richard Grey is doing the tech work, gotta ask him on this swap.
I see others are bringing up the Visahy Zfoils,,,
Dear Mozart, please note that those caps form a high-pass filter with the series caps, so you should not go too low or you will ruin the low-frequency cut off (e.g. phase).
Probably anything in the 400-800k would be ok.
Anyway I espect also a change in sound, so that is why I suggested to try Shinkoh, even if 330k is a borderline low value...
Ciao!
Tino
Probably anything in the 400-800k would be ok.
Anyway I espect also a change in sound, so that is why I suggested to try Shinkoh, even if 330k is a borderline low value...
Ciao!
Tino
The Shinkoh are great, so maybe the new AN are great too, but at that price i would rather go for resolution, rather than beauty and use Z-foils where technically possible.
From what i've read the AN's are nearly identical to the deleted Shinkoh's.
AN Tantalum's have every value i need, Thing is, not heard a Tantalum so its ricky to go from Jadis' metal to tantalum = **might change ~~Jadis' sound** as someone suggested when mentioning that i will change all caps. Which i did, Except on the big blue Philips caps on top and 2 big blues underneath,, had to be reinstalled, the Nichicon 's completely missed what the blue Philips sang out.
One secret of Jadis' musicality are the Philips caps, which are not avaliable any longer.
I have no issues going with the *ugly* Vishays, but the Zfoils are only offered at .6 watts, so I need to double
1.8k@$16 X2 =$30
2.2k @$16 x 2 = $30
47k@$18x2 = $36
now the other values No matching Zfoil values.
Here is how these upgrades might go
Vishay zfoils in the 1.8k,2.2k, 47k value
Takman Metal Rey's in the 150k value
AudioNote Tantalum in the 470k value.
This seems to be my best bang for the buck.
Here is my YT vid on the Defy's upgrades with M silver supreme etc caps,
skip to 6:13,, remember 1 xover is going bad in this vid.
,Takman 's 150k, 2.2k 10k5watt just arrved,,,ahhh well lets hear Takman 1st, then go later with Zfoils,,then,,,,,my hunch is the Z's will win out, They are the *rave*
JADIS DEFY7 Mods Completed - YouTube
From what i've read the AN's are nearly identical to the deleted Shinkoh's.
AN Tantalum's have every value i need, Thing is, not heard a Tantalum so its ricky to go from Jadis' metal to tantalum = **might change ~~Jadis' sound** as someone suggested when mentioning that i will change all caps. Which i did, Except on the big blue Philips caps on top and 2 big blues underneath,, had to be reinstalled, the Nichicon 's completely missed what the blue Philips sang out.
One secret of Jadis' musicality are the Philips caps, which are not avaliable any longer.
I have no issues going with the *ugly* Vishays, but the Zfoils are only offered at .6 watts, so I need to double
1.8k@$16 X2 =$30
2.2k @$16 x 2 = $30
47k@$18x2 = $36
now the other values No matching Zfoil values.
Here is how these upgrades might go
Vishay zfoils in the 1.8k,2.2k, 47k value
Takman Metal Rey's in the 150k value
AudioNote Tantalum in the 470k value.
This seems to be my best bang for the buck.
Here is my YT vid on the Defy's upgrades with M silver supreme etc caps,
skip to 6:13,, remember 1 xover is going bad in this vid.
,Takman 's 150k, 2.2k 10k5watt just arrved,,,ahhh well lets hear Takman 1st, then go later with Zfoils,,then,,,,,my hunch is the Z's will win out, They are the *rave*
JADIS DEFY7 Mods Completed - YouTube
Anyway I espect also a change in sound, so that is why I suggested to try Shinkoh, even if 330k is a
I got it,
But thing is
AN's are offered in 1 watt
these Shintok's are 1/2 watt, and i know Richard mentioned something about the issues with employing Zfoils with 1/2 watt, need to double, = 2 resistors brings in more noise vs a single resistor.
So I am not sure Richard will even allow me to go with the super Zfoils., where i would need to double.
But he said, he would do whatever i requested,,
= I am going to try zfoils in the
1.8k
2.2k
47k
As I mentioned in the YT vid about,, my tech guy suggested we use Carbon comp,, , but immediately i found the sonics , ~~smoothed out~~, Interesting sonics for sure, maybe in jazz, but its not my flavor,,I perfer sharp, etchy, details,,,so we put in Takman Metal and The Jadis sound came right back.
I listen to classical, and do not want smooth.
I am wondering is the tantalum's are along the sonics of the Carbon composites..??
I will try to employ all 3 for a nice **gumbo* style sonics. btw I make a prettty good gumbo down here in New Orleans,,(but really New Orleans is now remnamed ,,Old-eans,, the old charms are completely annihilated with the , youknow what deal)
So zfoils 1.8k, 2.2k, 47k , AN Tantalums 470k and Rey's 150K
Here is my set up with the DPL, again 1 xover is faulty/softer vs the other speaker
JADIS DPL MUNDORF SILVERGOLD CAPS - YouTube
I got it,
But thing is
AN's are offered in 1 watt
these Shintok's are 1/2 watt, and i know Richard mentioned something about the issues with employing Zfoils with 1/2 watt, need to double, = 2 resistors brings in more noise vs a single resistor.
So I am not sure Richard will even allow me to go with the super Zfoils., where i would need to double.
But he said, he would do whatever i requested,,
= I am going to try zfoils in the
1.8k
2.2k
47k
As I mentioned in the YT vid about,, my tech guy suggested we use Carbon comp,, , but immediately i found the sonics , ~~smoothed out~~, Interesting sonics for sure, maybe in jazz, but its not my flavor,,I perfer sharp, etchy, details,,,so we put in Takman Metal and The Jadis sound came right back.
I listen to classical, and do not want smooth.
I am wondering is the tantalum's are along the sonics of the Carbon composites..??
I will try to employ all 3 for a nice **gumbo* style sonics. btw I make a prettty good gumbo down here in New Orleans,,(but really New Orleans is now remnamed ,,Old-eans,, the old charms are completely annihilated with the , youknow what deal)
So zfoils 1.8k, 2.2k, 47k , AN Tantalums 470k and Rey's 150K
Here is my set up with the DPL, again 1 xover is faulty/softer vs the other speaker
JADIS DPL MUNDORF SILVERGOLD CAPS - YouTube
googled Tantalum resistors and came to a hobby(not tech savvy) of Tantalum resistors,, The discussion offered nothing of interest,,except did grab this article on Zfoil's resistors,
I am sold,
These are really super high tech resistors.
http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/49997/49997.pdf
I am sold,
These are really super high tech resistors.
http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/49997/49997.pdf
If there isn't a datasheet, don't waste money on it, surest sign of snake oil there is... Vishay do some TaN chip resistors, rated for moisture and sulfur resistance, specs for voltage coefficient are very good, ie as good as any metal film, but is that what is meant here? Hard to judge as a lot of the audio sellers don't say anything meaningful about their products' specs. I see mention of Ta and AgTa, but is that just another metal film resistor anyhow?
After all a metal film resistor is made from a film of a metal, that's all there is too it, the best metals are stable and low tempco, and Ta is certainly stable (biocompatible in fact).
There's no audible difference between different metal resistors until thermal distortion comes into play at high power and low frequencies (that's actually measurable). But that's an argument for generous ratings of standard metal film, not exotic expensive materials.
With only marketing hype and no datasheet, its snake oil, ignore.
After all a metal film resistor is made from a film of a metal, that's all there is too it, the best metals are stable and low tempco, and Ta is certainly stable (biocompatible in fact).
There's no audible difference between different metal resistors until thermal distortion comes into play at high power and low frequencies (that's actually measurable). But that's an argument for generous ratings of standard metal film, not exotic expensive materials.
With only marketing hype and no datasheet, its snake oil, ignore.
With only marketing hype and no datasheet, its snake oil, ignore.
hummm interesting,, I get sick drinking snakeoil,, gets really expensive.
But here this tech guy says the Zfoils are ~ the real deal~~ and has a YT vid to prove it.....now ya got me thinking,,,so you are saying,, metal is metal,, electrons won;'t know if its zfoil of Takman's type metal...
hummm, you might be snakeoil busting here..,,back to Takman and Audio Notes Tantalum.s
really appreciate the tip,, ..
Shawn here says the Zfoils are the best bang for the buck..
Can't you hear the difference?
Metal Film vs Bulk Metal Foil in audio attenuator tube line amp - YouTube
hummm interesting,, I get sick drinking snakeoil,, gets really expensive.
But here this tech guy says the Zfoils are ~ the real deal~~ and has a YT vid to prove it.....now ya got me thinking,,,so you are saying,, metal is metal,, electrons won;'t know if its zfoil of Takman's type metal...
hummm, you might be snakeoil busting here..,,back to Takman and Audio Notes Tantalum.s
really appreciate the tip,, ..
Shawn here says the Zfoils are the best bang for the buck..
Can't you hear the difference?
Metal Film vs Bulk Metal Foil in audio attenuator tube line amp - YouTube
There's no audible difference between different metal resistors
Might have something here,,
I was hoping the new tech Takman metal Rey's would outperform the nearly 20 yr aged Jadis Metal resistors,, but oddly enough,, sonics were near exact, if not exact.
I thought Takman'a metal was something new technology , thus superior to what Jadis installed late 1990's.
Is this a case of *new is not always better*??
Might have something here,,
I was hoping the new tech Takman metal Rey's would outperform the nearly 20 yr aged Jadis Metal resistors,, but oddly enough,, sonics were near exact, if not exact.
I thought Takman'a metal was something new technology , thus superior to what Jadis installed late 1990's.
Is this a case of *new is not always better*??
What a bunch of BS. If your resistors are changing the FR there not resistors. And less bass means EQ. What a bunch of fools.
If your resistors are changing the FR there not resistors
Interesting, So true,
The Carbon composite did not at all change frequency response,, but did ~~flatten out~~ the sonics,, added smoothness, at the expense of ,,well actually frequency separation, that is the instruments had more detail, separation with the metal...,,or at least thats what i recall..
carbon ~~flatish~~ sound stage, metal more edge, more Live Band feel,,,, = fq separation.
Electrons passing through carbon vs metal, voices frequencies differently, I am speaking of mids, the fq range where 90%+ of our music is voiced. , bass was exactly equal in the carbon vs metal,,,, Highs maybe more rolled off with carbon.
Interesting, So true,
The Carbon composite did not at all change frequency response,, but did ~~flatten out~~ the sonics,, added smoothness, at the expense of ,,well actually frequency separation, that is the instruments had more detail, separation with the metal...,,or at least thats what i recall..
carbon ~~flatish~~ sound stage, metal more edge, more Live Band feel,,,, = fq separation.
Electrons passing through carbon vs metal, voices frequencies differently, I am speaking of mids, the fq range where 90%+ of our music is voiced. , bass was exactly equal in the carbon vs metal,,,, Highs maybe more rolled off with carbon.
Ok just googled 2nd harmonic distortion,,
well i guess metal ~~might seem~ more 2nd harmonic distortion,, but reading this article, i realized why i need metal and not carbon composite and maybe also avoid ~~Tantalums~~ as offering even MORE warmth into the sound that tubes already voice.
Tubes already smooth out the highs, and over all sonics,, which makes metal resistors the ideal choice for tube amplifications = adds a bit of ~~sparkle~~
Tung-Sol.com:: FAQs Why is there a difference in Tube and Transistor sound?
well i guess metal ~~might seem~ more 2nd harmonic distortion,, but reading this article, i realized why i need metal and not carbon composite and maybe also avoid ~~Tantalums~~ as offering even MORE warmth into the sound that tubes already voice.
Tubes already smooth out the highs, and over all sonics,, which makes metal resistors the ideal choice for tube amplifications = adds a bit of ~~sparkle~~
Tung-Sol.com:: FAQs Why is there a difference in Tube and Transistor sound?
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