We can't always afford polypropylene capacitors, much less
Teflon (tm), so we often make do with electrolytics when
we need those higher values.
There's all sorts of caps out there with claims to being better,
and they certainly are more expensive.
My favorite is the Elna silk capacitors, available from Digikey,
and really cheap. The measure spectacularly, sound great,
and the manufacturer's translated description of why they
sound better is a Babelfish classic.
So before you run out and spend a lot on the highly hyped
spendy caps, try the Elna silk caps.
There's hemp in them, too.
Teflon (tm), so we often make do with electrolytics when
we need those higher values.
There's all sorts of caps out there with claims to being better,
and they certainly are more expensive.
My favorite is the Elna silk capacitors, available from Digikey,
and really cheap. The measure spectacularly, sound great,
and the manufacturer's translated description of why they
sound better is a Babelfish classic.
So before you run out and spend a lot on the highly hyped
spendy caps, try the Elna silk caps.
There's hemp in them, too.
Hi Nelson,
Thanks for the hint, I'll have to try them.
I find that you need to go for higher voltage ratings to get good capacitors too. The smaller the can is, the worse the capacitor seems to perform (within reason!). So instead of using a 16 VDC capacitor, you may need to go up to 50 or 63 VDC to equal the performance of one you are replacing.
.
-Chris
Thanks for the hint, I'll have to try them.
I find that you need to go for higher voltage ratings to get good capacitors too. The smaller the can is, the worse the capacitor seems to perform (within reason!). So instead of using a 16 VDC capacitor, you may need to go up to 50 or 63 VDC to equal the performance of one you are replacing.
.
-Chris
I've been using these Elna RFS from Digikey but unfortunately they only stock up to 35v in the infamous 220uf values.
Nelson....i can only suggest base from what i have done in my past tweaking..
There is no best e-caps...just good grade made from special material...im not going into that anyway....what im going to share is that it all depend on where you are using it...digital domain or analog? In a cd player or amp? Dac or speaker? Best is that you specifiied your application and what you are trying to achieve. We all would be glad to assist.
There is no best e-caps...just good grade made from special material...im not going into that anyway....what im going to share is that it all depend on where you are using it...digital domain or analog? In a cd player or amp? Dac or speaker? Best is that you specifiied your application and what you are trying to achieve. We all would be glad to assist.
Woo-hoo, authoritative citation.
Agree on the Elnas, subbing them for Panny FCs at the chip side PS of a Daniels Gainclone made a surprising difference in smoothness (along with dropping the Rikken feedback shunt resistor for a Mills.) Being years since playing with electrolytics - usually toobs and oilers, films or silver micas - it was a pleasant surprise at a stick of gum price.caps have their place, elnas are good feedback caps, better with a Wima or similar bypassing them. Oscons are/were good for coupling duties, it depends on what you need them to do and your own personal taste.
I can't stand the KZ, i think they are awful caps- thin and bleached, but I understand why other people like them- because they suit their idea of what good sound is.
I can't stand the KZ, i think they are awful caps- thin and bleached, but I understand why other people like them- because they suit their idea of what good sound is.
I was really surprised and happy with the Elna silk caps -- tested them out on my AP and the distortion was really de minimus. Happy and surprissed because they really deliver a lot of value per money.
I haven't been able to tell the difference between Mills, Riken's and the Caddocks -- my baaaaaad ears, I guess.
I haven't been able to tell the difference between Mills, Riken's and the Caddocks -- my baaaaaad ears, I guess.
Nichicon KZ sounds thin?
My own experience with the Nichicon KZ are that they sound full with excellent bass quality the elnas tend to ADD smoothness to everything it touches. None is better than the other IMHO but the elnas can be too much on some recording. My 2 cents.
My own experience with the Nichicon KZ are that they sound full with excellent bass quality the elnas tend to ADD smoothness to everything it touches. None is better than the other IMHO but the elnas can be too much on some recording. My 2 cents.
I get my Elna's from handmade electronics. Has more of a selection.
They carry the upper end Nichicon if that's your thing.
, will try it ASAP very interesting.
Yeah, but not the hemp that most folks think of when they think of hemp. It's not cannabis sativa, but rather musa textilis, a relative of the banana plant, and otherwise known as "Manila hemp" (same stuff Fostex uses for their "banana plant fiber" speaker cones).
So don't go smokin' those Silmics. It'd be more like smokin' banana peels than a doob.
k
No cause for sheepishness.
If a carbon comp can 'make a sound', essentially current driven at the feedback input of a high gain device must rank high on the list of possible locations. An input ground reference driven by low Zout, perhaps not so much.
Yes but to my ears they don't sound right:
ZL in feedback loop of MyRef
ZL vs Silmics in my SCD-555ES
ZL vs FC vs Silmics in my Marantz receiver
Strictly IMHO
I´ve spend a lot of time trying different caps in different designs.
The one that to me came out as the superior one is deffinately Panasonic FM. But they do come in smaller values only. I think 35V stops @ 1.800µF.
The sound of the FM´s might not suit your gear, but it is IMHO what I think of the most colourless electrolytic available. I respect Elna for their audio work, but to me it seems more like a way of tweaking something in a specific direction, more than solving the basic problems leading to the need of tweaking.
To me Pana FM´s are the ones for PSU decoupling in line level circuits.
In digital power supplies they are beauties.
I will also mention Sanyo MV-AX, They are also top performers.
Looking at larger caps I´d sugest Rifa PEH 169 or PEH 200, they are very strong and will last for the rest of your life. ESR, IRmax and life expectancy are unsurpassed, the only one rivalling them are Sikorel from Epcos. Both of these types are extremely rugged, and will make any high power PSU better, but they are very different from others makes, which could reveal weaknesses in the rest of the amplifier. It is in fact a matter of try and error, if your amplifier needs lower ESR or not. Theoretically they will give you a rock solid PSU, making it possible for your amplifier to perform more acurately.
Film caps are also different, but Wima really do make nice ones, Panasonic caps are also very respectable.
At the end of the day, I think there is just one thing to be considered, namely that even the very best capacitors are ranked only second to no capacitor. Avoiding caps are the all time greatest solution to sound quality and the avoidance of colouration.
This actually brings me to the point, they are really bad performers all of them, but IRL we need them for different purposes. But if possible they should be kept @ as low values as possible, or at best, be designed completely out of the audio circuits if possible. At least they should be kept as far away from the signal path as can be done.
But we do need them in filters and for some decoupling purposes. The real sport to me is to design regulators that are fast enough to either avoid decoupling or keep the need for decoupling so low, that film caps can do the job. This calls for very fast and low impedance regulators, at best it could be shunt regulators or some discrete high performance design.
At the very feet of digital logic circuits, such as DAC chips, ASRC´s, recievers etc., there is no way around ceramics though, but they can succesfully be backed up by a nice film cap.
Just my 5 cents.
The one that to me came out as the superior one is deffinately Panasonic FM. But they do come in smaller values only. I think 35V stops @ 1.800µF.
The sound of the FM´s might not suit your gear, but it is IMHO what I think of the most colourless electrolytic available. I respect Elna for their audio work, but to me it seems more like a way of tweaking something in a specific direction, more than solving the basic problems leading to the need of tweaking.
To me Pana FM´s are the ones for PSU decoupling in line level circuits.
In digital power supplies they are beauties.
I will also mention Sanyo MV-AX, They are also top performers.
Looking at larger caps I´d sugest Rifa PEH 169 or PEH 200, they are very strong and will last for the rest of your life. ESR, IRmax and life expectancy are unsurpassed, the only one rivalling them are Sikorel from Epcos. Both of these types are extremely rugged, and will make any high power PSU better, but they are very different from others makes, which could reveal weaknesses in the rest of the amplifier. It is in fact a matter of try and error, if your amplifier needs lower ESR or not. Theoretically they will give you a rock solid PSU, making it possible for your amplifier to perform more acurately.
Film caps are also different, but Wima really do make nice ones, Panasonic caps are also very respectable.
At the end of the day, I think there is just one thing to be considered, namely that even the very best capacitors are ranked only second to no capacitor. Avoiding caps are the all time greatest solution to sound quality and the avoidance of colouration.
This actually brings me to the point, they are really bad performers all of them, but IRL we need them for different purposes. But if possible they should be kept @ as low values as possible, or at best, be designed completely out of the audio circuits if possible. At least they should be kept as far away from the signal path as can be done.
But we do need them in filters and for some decoupling purposes. The real sport to me is to design regulators that are fast enough to either avoid decoupling or keep the need for decoupling so low, that film caps can do the job. This calls for very fast and low impedance regulators, at best it could be shunt regulators or some discrete high performance design.
At the very feet of digital logic circuits, such as DAC chips, ASRC´s, recievers etc., there is no way around ceramics though, but they can succesfully be backed up by a nice film cap.
Just my 5 cents.
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I see what you mean. I have had benefits by using only 3R3, 1uF film parallel Zobel terminated high voltage shunt and no decoupling capacitors on the audio circuit by keeping it near. Also by eliminating local RC filter in 1st stage phono due to much less interaction with second stage when powered by a diminutive & flat impedance shunt instead of in series methods or batteries.