Best electrolytic capacitors - Page 169

sumotan · 17th December 2020, 02:42 PM

There is no best sounding capacitor Jesper. Since your aware of each caps pros & cons you can combine them like soem in PS & some in decoupling to achieve a sound that you like.
Re KZ only go for 50v version cause 25v version of the same value sounds dreadful. Btw he best sounding KZ that I found are the 22 & 33uf 50v version. In general my findings are 50v versions mostly sounds better then lower voltage ones.

Cheers

diyiggy · 17th December 2020, 02:45 PM

agreed !

I would try a phrase à la Linkwitz for the joke : "It's not one capacitor you are hearing but the sum of the defaults of all the capacitors on the circuitry"

ainami · 17th December 2020, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gentlevoice

I also like the Nichicon KZ series but somehow miss a balanced tone here ... to my ears they can be a bit "screamy" in the upper midrange ...

I have found that this is the case with KZ when they are undersized for that specific position or if the main power supply is not large enough. Try bumping up the size of the KZ caps if you get this. Or even increase the size of the power supply post-regulator caps if it's in a low voltage audio circuit.

fabrice63 · 17th December 2020, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumotan

Despite of this my experience with Clarity CSA isn't that glowing when used in speaker XO. Got a wake up call after I change to Auricap XO.

is your judgement made after an well over 100 hours run in ??

otherwise it has no sense to judge an capacitor

.

diyiggy · 17th December 2020, 08:46 PM

100 hours, wow, more than a Black-Gate or a thermic motor... lol ! We can imagine what xill do the Auricap with the same burning in, uh !

gentlevoice · 19th December 2020, 08:02 AM

@sumotan: Hi .. & thanks for your feedback. Although I am aware that there likely isn't any "one good" capacitor looking at the Denafrips Pontus - and remembering earlier designs with many of just one capacitor type - I was thinking/hoping that maybe a good overall capacitor could be found - and that one of you might have found this ONE (as I haven't myself).

Interesting also that the 22uF & 33uF 50V KZ versions are the ones you consider the best ... I reckon this is for decoupling as they do not provide much capacity for stabilizing a PSU voltage?

@ainami: Thank you also for your feedback ... Well, actually the capacitors I am using are the 1000uF/50V KZs combined with Nichicon KG and GU - altogether about 54000uF for the input stage per channel and 72000uF for the output stage per channel.

My personal thought about why the sound is a little screamy is that the 1000uF/50V KZs are rather large so I guess that their HF impedance probably is higher than the capacitors I used previously. And since the input stage has an appr. 11 MHz - 3dB point and the output stage a 2.2 MHz - 3dB point I reckon this could influence the stability of the circuits. I will see if/when I can find time to measure this.

I in general agree with the notion of combining capacitors, however, in the long term I find it to be pretty hard on the PCBs soldering on and off so many times. Also, from a systematic point of view, I find it to be suboptimal to do it in this way as the circuitry has to warm up again, the solder joints and/or the new capacitor has to be run-in - and this may make hands-on comparisons "tricky". So to me at least it would be nice to find either ONE capacitor (e.g. one for digital circuitry, one for analog circuitry) that was the "Best", or a method to allow combination of suitable capacitors in a simple way.

With regards to a method of combining capacitors I have been thinking of maybe using something like the Digikey analog discovery II and its impedance measuring feature to combine the appropriate sizes of e.g. KZ, Cerafine & KG/GU to arrive at a combination that yields a straight impedance curve from "DC to infinity"

... if this is at all relevant ... Well, thinking aloud here ...

Anyway, I will be off on my Christmas vacation now so if there are any comments to this I won't be reading them until ~ 28 December. Merry Christmas to you ...

Cheers,

Jesper

diyiggy · 19th December 2020, 01:36 PM

I personnaly use the KZ 22 uF but in 100V iirc in the last stages of an amp, very good.

But in a voltage PSU... uh.. will not do that -personal tastes- but in a CRC PSU after the resistor, first C being a slower Long Life type... Lelon for instance ! Or why not an ELna Tonorex or even Silmic I don't like... CRC permits some fun !

No all in one cap as Sumo is saying. A forgiving one is the Panasonic FR, but even though there are some place I never use it...

19th December 2020, 08:02 AM	#1686
gentlevoice diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denmark	@sumotan: Hi .. & thanks for your feedback. Although I am aware that there likely isn't any "one good" capacitor looking at the Denafrips Pontus - and remembering earlier designs with many of just one capacitor type - I was thinking/hoping that maybe a good overall capacitor could be found - and that one of you might have found this ONE (as I haven't myself). Interesting also that the 22uF & 33uF 50V KZ versions are the ones you consider the best ... I reckon this is for decoupling as they do not provide much capacity for stabilizing a PSU voltage? @ainami: Thank you also for your feedback ... Well, actually the capacitors I am using are the 1000uF/50V KZs combined with Nichicon KG and GU - altogether about 54000uF for the input stage per channel and 72000uF for the output stage per channel. My personal thought about why the sound is a little screamy is that the 1000uF/50V KZs are rather large so I guess that their HF impedance probably is higher than the capacitors I used previously. And since the input stage has an appr. 11 MHz - 3dB point and the output stage a 2.2 MHz - 3dB point I reckon this could influence the stability of the circuits. I will see if/when I can find time to measure this. I in general agree with the notion of combining capacitors, however, in the long term I find it to be pretty hard on the PCBs soldering on and off so many times. Also, from a systematic point of view, I find it to be suboptimal to do it in this way as the circuitry has to warm up again, the solder joints and/or the new capacitor has to be run-in - and this may make hands-on comparisons "tricky". So to me at least it would be nice to find either ONE capacitor (e.g. one for digital circuitry, one for analog circuitry) that was the "Best", or a method to allow combination of suitable capacitors in a simple way. With regards to a method of combining capacitors I have been thinking of maybe using something like the Digikey analog discovery II and its impedance measuring feature to combine the appropriate sizes of e.g. KZ, Cerafine & KG/GU to arrive at a combination that yields a straight impedance curve from "DC to infinity" ... if this is at all relevant ... Well, thinking aloud here ... Anyway, I will be off on my Christmas vacation now so if there are any comments to this I won't be reading them until ~ 28 December. Merry Christmas to you ... Cheers, Jesper __________________ "... It is always possible to be friendly ..." HH the Dalai Lama.

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17th December 2020, 02:42 PM	#1681
sumotan diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2013	There is no best sounding capacitor Jesper. Since your aware of each caps pros & cons you can combine them like soem in PS & some in decoupling to achieve a sound that you like. Re KZ only go for 50v version cause 25v version of the same value sounds dreadful. Btw he best sounding KZ that I found are the 22 & 33uf 50v version. In general my findings are 50v versions mostly sounds better then lower voltage ones. Cheers

17th December 2020, 02:45 PM	#1682
diyiggy Sin Bin Join Date: Jan 2019	agreed ! I would try a phrase à la Linkwitz for the joke : "It's not one capacitor you are hearing but the sum of the defaults of all the capacitors on the circuitry"

17th December 2020, 08:46 PM	#1685
diyiggy Sin Bin Join Date: Jan 2019	100 hours, wow, more than a Black-Gate or a thermic motor... lol ! We can imagine what xill do the Auricap with the same burning in, uh !

19th December 2020, 01:36 PM	#1687
diyiggy Sin Bin Join Date: Jan 2019	I personnaly use the KZ 22 uF but in 100V iirc in the last stages of an amp, very good. But in a voltage PSU... uh.. will not do that -personal tastes- but in a CRC PSU after the resistor, first C being a slower Long Life type... Lelon for instance ! Or why not an ELna Tonorex or even Silmic I don't like... CRC permits some fun ! No all in one cap as Sumo is saying. A forgiving one is the Panasonic FR, but even though there are some place I never use it...