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Old 28th September 2021, 09:03 PM   #21
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael rancour View Post
1)Would it be worthwhile orienting my speaker vertically instead of horizontally?
2)Wouldn’t it be best if the tweeters were closer to the mid range horn in the middle, rather than on the side in the mid bass ports for the 15inch woofers?
3)I suspect that the pressure coming out of these horns would distort the sound?
4)On the other hand, this got me thinking of maybe trying out another way to couple the bms 4599he with the 4 tweeters. The bms 4599he would still be place right at the apex of the synergy horn, but the ciare tweeters would be mounted on each corners of the synergy horn in a way so that it matches the same dispersion.
5)You also mentioned using coax compression driver instead. I’ve actually thought about doing this. My only concern was output.
1) Yes.
2) Better perhaps, but still not good.
3)The SPL from the bass horn won't affect the tweeters.
4) The arrangement you suggest would still not allow a uniform dispersion at more than one frequency and one position in space.
5) This design has healthy output using a single coax HF and two 12":

New DIY Mid High (90deg) - AKA PM90 | Sound Forums

More output can be achieved using more drivers, like the EV MTS 4153-64, using four 15" and two co-ax HF crossed at 450Hz.

The DSL J7 uses eighteen drivers in a cabinet only 24" x 24" x 36".

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File Type: png EV MTS 4153-64 .png (594.7 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg DSL J7-95.jpg (191.5 KB, 72 views)
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Old 28th September 2021, 10:58 PM   #22
Michael rancour is offline Michael rancour  Canada
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You really seem to know what you are talking about. If i understand you would recommend me to cancel my order and get coax drivers instead? Or would you just suggest me re doing my design speaker from scratch? Using my original design, would it be possible to get adequate performance and really loud SPL? Re restarting would just be a bit disappointing considering the time and money it took making this design. As for the bms 4599he, I actually donít know if I could even cancel my order as I have now been waiting for more than two months since they are built to order.
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Old 28th September 2021, 11:00 PM   #23
Michael rancour is offline Michael rancour  Canada
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
1) Yes.
2) Better perhaps, but still not good.
3)The SPL from the bass horn won't affect the tweeters.
4) The arrangement you suggest would still not allow a uniform dispersion at more than one frequency and one position in space.
5) This design has healthy output using a single coax HF and two 12":

New DIY Mid High (90deg) - AKA PM90 | Sound Forums

More output can be achieved using more drivers, like the EV MTS 4153-64, using four 15" and two co-ax HF crossed at 450Hz.

The DSL J7 uses eighteen drivers in a cabinet only 24" x 24" x 36".

You really seem to know what you are talking about. If i understand you would recommend me to cancel my order and get coax drivers instead? Or would you just suggest me re doing my design speaker from scratch? Using my original design, would it be possible to get adequate performance and really loud SPL? Re restarting would just be a bit disappointing considering the time and money it took making this design. As for the bms 4599he, I actually donít know if I could even cancel my order as I have now been waiting for more than two months since they are built to order.

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Old 29th September 2021, 05:02 PM   #24
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael rancour View Post
1)You really seem to know what you are talking about.
2)If i understand you would recommend me to cancel my order and get coax drivers instead?
3)Or would you just suggest me re doing my design speaker from scratch? 4)Using my original design, would it be possible to get adequate performance and really loud SPL?
5)Re restarting would just be a bit disappointing considering the time and money it took making this design. As for the bms 4599he, I actually don’t know if I could even cancel my order as I have now been waiting for more than two months since they are built to order.
1)I started designing speaker enclosures over 40 years ago, and have tried to "keep up" on advances in designs since. "Constant directivity" horns were developed back then, I "phased out" the use of horn/drivers like the JBL 2402 a few years later, some of the last of those cabinets were used in Prince's Purple Rain movie filmed in 1983.
2) Without knowing what your sonic goals are, can't make anything but general suggestions.
3)Possibly, see response #2. Having made some poor (in retrospect) cabinet design choices that went on to be built, wish I would have known the underlying principles that compromised their performance prior to making sawdust.
4) Your original design certainly will get loud, but if even frequency response ("constant directivity") over a typical coverage area is also high on your "adequate performance" list, not possible using the components you chose for this project.
5) I have no idea what cancelling your order would entail financially.

The B&C DCX464 appears to be shipping immediately, it has similar specifications to the BMS co-ax HF drivers. Using a co-ax HF and rotating your HF horn 90 degrees would make your cabinet far better from a uniform audience coverage standpoint, while not sacrificing much MID/HF level.

That said, my preference for really loud (135 dB+) constant directivity devices would use cone mid drivers in the 400-1000 range, which opens up more cost effective options without the excursion limitations imposed using co-ax MID/HF drivers, especially when using conical horn expansions.

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Last edited by weltersys; 29th September 2021 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 30th September 2021, 01:38 AM   #25
Michael rancour is offline Michael rancour  Canada
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Originally Posted by kipman725 View Post
This tweeter should have similar dispersion to your bullets:
https://jblpro.com/en/site_elements/2402h-information

I would array them such that the array matches the mid horn dispersion at the crossover frequency and that they don't comb filter at this frequency. Accepting the limitation that the high frequency pattern will have 'fingers' from the collapsing dispersion.
Totally agree. Seems to be pretty much the only adequate solution without redesigning my speaker.
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