Hello, I would love to know a bit more about the sound systems in techno festivals and/or concerts.
For example, for the ultra music festival or tomorrowland kind of things.
What kind of systems do they use ? How many subwoofers for that kind of area ?
I read that it was especially line arrays but I noticed that there were none of them at tomorrowland or umf...
What are the SPLmax of the speakers they use ? Do they use RCF or Yamaha active speakers like the 745A from RCF or DZR15 from Yamaha ?
For example, for the ultra music festival or tomorrowland kind of things.
What kind of systems do they use ? How many subwoofers for that kind of area ?
I read that it was especially line arrays but I noticed that there were none of them at tomorrowland or umf...
What are the SPLmax of the speakers they use ? Do they use RCF or Yamaha active speakers like the 745A from RCF or DZR15 from Yamaha ?
Yep, those are the sort of shows where you'd have a couple of 2x18"s for the DJ monitor.
Plastic boxes need not apply.
Chris
For non line array systems in Europe at festival scale lambda labs seems to get used a lot:
Home | Lambda Labs
Home | Lambda Labs
Tomorrowland has been using L-Acoustics for a while, mostly from the K-serie. Serie K - Ligne source - L-Acoustics
Needbass
Head over to Speakerplans forum and look at the system pictures.
Is there enough bass for You ?
Years no long ago I remember seeing 12 JBL Vortex Subs under a small concert stage.
I remember a wedding where an Angolan DJ (unfortunately died 15 days after in a plane crash) asked my brother if he could use one of it's tops (2000W RMS) as monitors.
The Top was sitting close to his ear. We thought he was deaf...
Head over to Speakerplans forum and look at the system pictures.
Is there enough bass for You ?
Years no long ago I remember seeing 12 JBL Vortex Subs under a small concert stage.
I remember a wedding where an Angolan DJ (unfortunately died 15 days after in a plane crash) asked my brother if he could use one of it's tops (2000W RMS) as monitors.
The Top was sitting close to his ear. We thought he was deaf...
I have heard some so-called concerts, indoors & outdoors, KISS, Van Halen, etc...but frankly, they sounded like s...!, hollow, undefined...never quite up to the ultimate outdoor sound-machine, Grateful Deads "Wall of sound"
I heard that glorious machine in 1978?...listening all day long...I couldn't understand how the drum strikes traveled laterally & vertically, until I found out each individual drum had its own microphone & dedicated driver.
Unfortunately, we may not hear the likes of such in the foreseeable future again. Owsley, "Bear" Stanley, sound engineer 1935-2011
The song Fire on the Mountain was particularly spectacular, as each drum strike would travel along the array up & down on the right & cross to the left array as the last of the seven drum strikes. Listen to the music.
------------------------------------------------------------------Rick
I heard that glorious machine in 1978?...listening all day long...I couldn't understand how the drum strikes traveled laterally & vertically, until I found out each individual drum had its own microphone & dedicated driver.
Unfortunately, we may not hear the likes of such in the foreseeable future again. Owsley, "Bear" Stanley, sound engineer 1935-2011
The song Fire on the Mountain was particularly spectacular, as each drum strike would travel along the array up & down on the right & cross to the left array as the last of the seven drum strikes. Listen to the music.
------------------------------------------------------------------Rick
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Yes, in the most of the festivals they use line arrays. If you look at photos from the tomorrowland and umf main stage you can easy spot the line array columns.
Ok thank you, I had not noticed that.
I looked at some of the brands you talked about (l acoustics, clare brothers...) and they look like something else than RCF or Yamaha, definitely another level.
Me who was hoping to get a big concert/festival sound in my garden, I guess I have to be realistic even if it’s for 400 m2, not for such a big area like in festivals.
I looked at some of the brands you talked about (l acoustics, clare brothers...) and they look like something else than RCF or Yamaha, definitely another level.
Me who was hoping to get a big concert/festival sound in my garden, I guess I have to be realistic even if it’s for 400 m2, not for such a big area like in festivals.
It's better to keep in mind not only system power or sounding area, but safe exposition time at different SPLs like:
Permissible Exposure Time for Noise SPL sound pressure level and duration Guidelines How long can a person endure a certain noise level before hearing damage occurs health sound level noise hearing ears impairment tinnitus damage - sengpielaudio Seng
So, you can build more or less potent system in your garden by choosing time and mean listening level and then going to power and sensitivity.
Dave Rat has been working the Sahara Tent, one of the biggest stages in the EDM world for quite some time. His M-Force SuperSub designs are probably the most "cutting edge" of the EDM/Rock world.
This article gives a breakdown of the system used there:
M-Force and Rat Sound's SuperSub at Coachella 2018 - LightSoundJournal.com
Reminds me of the liner notes that Tony Wilson from Melody Maker wrote into Yes' debut album about the Speakeasy: Most bands there were overamplified, but undertalented. Yes were not.
Best regards!
Hi,
I can't talk about 'techno festival' ( music played is not my culture neither is a 'techno' festival) but i can speak of the best sound system i played on and listened in free parties around 20/15 years ago.
For the kind of music i play ( D&B) the absolute best was a DB system in 'classical' form ( no line array). Can't remember the reference but it was around 2005, more than 10kw.
I liked some Turbo Sound, Das and RCF system too at that time. I've heard some custom horn loaded system which was incredible but 'tuned' to style played ( rock and roll or vocals won't sound good on this one i bet).
I've never been convinced by line array, they sound lifeless to me whatever the style.
Funktion One systems sounds good from the most recents i've heard ( a bit harsh in high mid but that is ok to me).
One of the main point about these system was their sound but the ability they have to play loud for extended period of time ( up to 4/5 days non stop).
BesPav last sentence is spot on ( and how a system needs is defined in proworld). You define your dancefloor, then your need in spl at a given distance, you then define the loss experienced ( you loose 6db each time you double distance eg from 1m to 2m: -6db, 2m to 4m: -6db, etc,etc,...) and you are into ball park.
If you can make your system to have a frequency response like in the second link then you are on a good start:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...ntrolled-directivity-wall-10.html#post5474639
About EDM be warned that if you were part of the audience you'll need a LOT of sub to have same feelings: first you have need for more power in low end than in rock shows, second most of the time the foh eq profile is 'customer specified'. It means the overall eq response of the system is defined by 'ears' ( subjectively) to the preference of the customer.
It invariably means a 'loudness' kind of curve ( smiley eq) which equal to a lot of power requirement/box in the low end.
There was a thread in Prosoundweb forum ( iirc) where a member of Danley technical crew explained the situation and why they needed an insane amount of sub ( iirc he talked about 12db more power needed than in 'regular' rock show... the same difference that exist between 32w and 512w, keep in mind it is added to the already higher power requirements needed in low end ( link given above).
I can't talk about 'techno festival' ( music played is not my culture neither is a 'techno' festival) but i can speak of the best sound system i played on and listened in free parties around 20/15 years ago.
For the kind of music i play ( D&B) the absolute best was a DB system in 'classical' form ( no line array). Can't remember the reference but it was around 2005, more than 10kw.
I liked some Turbo Sound, Das and RCF system too at that time. I've heard some custom horn loaded system which was incredible but 'tuned' to style played ( rock and roll or vocals won't sound good on this one i bet).
I've never been convinced by line array, they sound lifeless to me whatever the style.
Funktion One systems sounds good from the most recents i've heard ( a bit harsh in high mid but that is ok to me).
One of the main point about these system was their sound but the ability they have to play loud for extended period of time ( up to 4/5 days non stop).
BesPav last sentence is spot on ( and how a system needs is defined in proworld). You define your dancefloor, then your need in spl at a given distance, you then define the loss experienced ( you loose 6db each time you double distance eg from 1m to 2m: -6db, 2m to 4m: -6db, etc,etc,...) and you are into ball park.
If you can make your system to have a frequency response like in the second link then you are on a good start:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...ntrolled-directivity-wall-10.html#post5474639
About EDM be warned that if you were part of the audience you'll need a LOT of sub to have same feelings: first you have need for more power in low end than in rock shows, second most of the time the foh eq profile is 'customer specified'. It means the overall eq response of the system is defined by 'ears' ( subjectively) to the preference of the customer.
It invariably means a 'loudness' kind of curve ( smiley eq) which equal to a lot of power requirement/box in the low end.
There was a thread in Prosoundweb forum ( iirc) where a member of Danley technical crew explained the situation and why they needed an insane amount of sub ( iirc he talked about 12db more power needed than in 'regular' rock show... the same difference that exist between 32w and 512w, keep in mind it is added to the already higher power requirements needed in low end ( link given above).
Wow, can it go more offtopic?
Lot of horn loaded stuff on the techno circuit..... old Turbosound flashlight and floodlight on the underground soundsystem scene..... and retired EAW rental stock.
On the more commercial side of things, as mentioned, D&B audiotechnik, Lambda Labs, Danley sound and VOID, etc.... maybe Föön
Lot of horn loaded stuff on the techno circuit..... old Turbosound flashlight and floodlight on the underground soundsystem scene..... and retired EAW rental stock.
On the more commercial side of things, as mentioned, D&B audiotechnik, Lambda Labs, Danley sound and VOID, etc.... maybe Föön
Off Topic about techno/EDM/Drum & Bass?
I don't know, there is musical genres differences but technical requirement and overall 'resulting sound' is not so far away for me :the real difference is in the time period systems have to play and newer stuff dig a bit deeper in the low end.
This last point is questionable as Kraftwerk use PA which goes to 10hz for some years now and they are not 'newcomers' in electronic scene.
The D&B audiotechnics system i talked about was impressive about this too. Some Dylan's / Technical Itch's tracks (early Outbreak records/Penetration records) i played on it have loud 20hz and you could really feels it which was unusal ( most soundsystem of the time was really limited to 40hz imho, which wasn't an isue with techno but for Drum & Bass it was nice to have).
Most recents systems may be more impressive in the low end but if you use same amount of sub it would sound the same i'm sure.
In the end it is a question of planning of required level and foh eq and adapt requirements.
I don't know, there is musical genres differences but technical requirement and overall 'resulting sound' is not so far away for me :the real difference is in the time period systems have to play and newer stuff dig a bit deeper in the low end.
This last point is questionable as Kraftwerk use PA which goes to 10hz for some years now and they are not 'newcomers' in electronic scene.
The D&B audiotechnics system i talked about was impressive about this too. Some Dylan's / Technical Itch's tracks (early Outbreak records/Penetration records) i played on it have loud 20hz and you could really feels it which was unusal ( most soundsystem of the time was really limited to 40hz imho, which wasn't an isue with techno but for Drum & Bass it was nice to have).
Most recents systems may be more impressive in the low end but if you use same amount of sub it would sound the same i'm sure.
In the end it is a question of planning of required level and foh eq and adapt requirements.
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