Sanway fp14000 experiences.

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Hi folks.
I have been increasingly been looking at the Sanway fp14000 amplifier as a next step for my sub set up which will include (4) keystones , 18" tbw100-4 loaded.
The price is attractive and there is a growing base of happy users.
Does anyone here have actual field experience with this unit.
Reports say that this, along with the fp20k are great sub amps, fp10000 not so much.
I recognize 1 user (chrapladm) from the following thread but these guys seem insane in their quest for amps with huge burst power, whereas i need an amp that will be playing several types of edm from tech to rolling dnb with sine like basslines.

I currently have a Crest cc5500 for lows and a crown k1 for the tops and will be starting the subs this winter.
There is a short list on the last page of the thread listing page locations of all tested amplifiers if you don't want to read all 1700+ posts

Measuring Amplifiers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Any solid advice is appreciated!
 
If you're going to play sine waves at full power, a Crown MA5000VZ will be able to burn out your chosen 18"s. No need to go bigger, unless you've got a good way of limiting the average power being delivered to your drivers.

FWIW, I'd consider using 8ohm LF drivers. That way, 2x drivers per amp channel gets you a 4ohm load, which is where most amps are happiest.


Chris
 
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Hey guys.
No i do not like burning up $500.00 drivers. That said, i do have a dcx 2496 and it looks like the fp 14000 has internal limiters as well.
I only have 2 of the b&c tbws right now @ 4 ohm.
I could probably wire the enclosures in series for nominal 8 ohm load per channel on the fp 14k as its 8 ohm output is stated at 2300+ wpc.
I want to expand my sub amp base so at least i can use my cc5500 to power more subs as my system grows.
Anyone actually used this amp for gigs? Still looking for down and dirty experiences. ;)
 
I have 2 of these

They put out rated power. They are clean outputs. I have run many other amps and these are better. Don't run @ 2 ohms. They will put the power out. Then pop. They are much happier at 4 ohm. Had to replace woofers @ 2 ohm and then a board blew. I have them on a 240 volt 80 amp circuit through a 480 volt 230lb transformer to provide 60-60 balanced power. They suck some serious amperage when cranking. Heats up mil spec 12 ga ofc copper silver plated Teflon wire to a warm condition. Will be changing to dual 6 ga soon. One is on my 2 channel rig on 6 subs 12 in ficar and re audio all ported and as big as they make. You can smell warm voice coils after a hour of slamming. 7.2 setup has adire maelstroms and nvx vcw 18s ported. Don't run them as hard. Mine are Sanway. Reliable after I replaced board and exercised restraint on volume and ohm load.
 
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Tests of the FP-13000 here: Rob's Amp tests - Page 3 - Bass Gear - Data-Bass Forums

very strong output but not sufficiently well protected to be run flat out and/or into 2 ohms. Also some issues with the voltage peak limiter been set incorrectly for 4/8 ohm use. Also in my opinion the idle power draw could be better. If i needed that much power I would spend more money on a 2nd hand amp or opt for something like a Sound Gear Saturn rather than a knock off.
 
Even iNukes

AFAIK, not rated to 2 Ohms.

Being really to 2 Ohm load it can deliver near a quater than fp14k and limited mostly by output current capability.
Also keep in mind watt-per-bucks ratio if your subs can resist that levels.

What I'm hearing here is "must be babied in order to survive the gig"

I'm always hear "gig must be babied to survive FP-series", not matter original lab or one of chineese copies.
10k tear the diaphragms of any unsymmetrically builded sub, while 20k really burns coils. Of course if you provide a capable power outlet or be ready to replace molten wires.

20k bridged outputs slightly less than 800 Volts (yes, eight hundred volts) peak-to-peak and overcurrent protected somewhere near 80 Amps. Welding station and plasma-cutter, not an audio amplifier.
;)
 
A few of the iNukes (and newer NX series) are rated for 2ohm/ch. When I tried sine tones at 1.25ohm/ch (measured impedance at that frequency) on an NU3000DSP, it shut down after trying for a couple of seconds.
The fact that the clone amps would just go "pop" under those conditions is a big problem IMO.

FP series aren't particularly special in the touring market. They're a decent solid amp, but so is the Crown ITech range, Powersoft X-series, Linea Research, etc etc etc.
My Crown MA12000i will do about 270V RMS when bridged (a mere 750V p/p), while my Powersoft T602 will limit at 100A/ch.

Chris
 
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I think it must also be emphasized that the FP-13000 eventually failed on a 4 ohm load (90s). The amplifier protection systems just aren't working correctly.

Talking about the INuke I have also used them in the past and didn't have any problems but would also not rate them as a reliable amplifier as my I found a number of design flaws. Firstly it has fan control but this does not work correctly, its meant to have a smooth ramp but almost straight away goes full speed. Secondly it has SMD components directly in the airflow that accumulate dust very quickly. If you left it racked in the amp room of a club it would only last a few months before the dust accumulation from these flaws caused failure.
 
When I tried sine tones

Yes, there are an engineereing beats marketologists.
Most of the users RTFM only where unit already burned. If i wrote that manuals then first phrase would be "well, broke it already?".

FP-series is a well-designed amp, but it doesnt designed for simultaneous hard drive with a four 4ohm subs.
Lab's engineers keep in mind music peak-factor and just build an full-band amp which assumes those circumstances:
1. User are adequate at subs power ratings, and, say, will use something 100 mm coiled 8 Ohm 2x18" per channel. So one 218 sub per side.
2. User knows about HF driver burning with clipping amp. So will keep some headroom at channels for tops.
3. User will use mighty tops, say 2x15" + 3"/4" comp driver.
4. User understands, that hard driving 16 pieces of 8 ohm subs is a very different levels of event and can't be managed by one amp from one mains outlet.

So one 10k amp could drive such a system more or less reliable.
Squezing limits usually ends with failure.
 
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FP-series is a well-designed amp

Yes, they are.

The clones are not. They can provide a decent amount of power, but the protection circuits don't work properly.

If I was operating a PA system with genuine Lab Gruppen amplifiers, I'd be happy to know that the PA system will carry on working throughout the night and I wouldn't have to worry.
If I had clone amps, I would be very very careful.

Let's not confuse the two amps.

FWIW, the difference between a good and bad PA system is what happens when you get close to the limits. A good system will compress the sound while maintaining tonality etc. An okay system will get a little crunchy from hard-clipping amplifiers. A very very bad system will let the magic smoke out and stop working forever.

Chris
 
Yes, they are.

The clones are not. They can provide a decent amount of power, but the protection circuits don't work properly.

If I was operating a PA system with genuine Lab Gruppen amplifiers, I'd be happy to know that the PA system will carry on working throughout the night and I wouldn't have to worry.
If I had clone amps, I would be very very careful.

Let's not confuse the two amps.

FWIW, the difference between a good and bad PA system is what happens when you get close to the limits. A good system will compress the sound while maintaining tonality etc. An okay system will get a little crunchy from hard-clipping amplifiers. A very very bad system will let the magic smoke out and stop working forever.

Chris

The amp failed because the subs failed and the user failed. But I learned how to replace a board and bought bigger subs. They still rock.
 

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The amp failed because the subs failed

A PA amp that isn't short-circuit protected isn't worth having.


I'm not sure you guys understand the sort of conditions that PA amps must continue to operate in:

They should survive anything. Direct sunlight at the height of Summer, sweaty nightclubs, speakers melting and going short, dodgy mains supplies, running into low impedances, hitting the clip light on every kick drum hit, having speakers disconnected under full power etc etc etc.

Under all those conditions, they must deliver most/all of their rated power and still sound decent.


The Lab Gruppen FP series will manage all of that, and probably some others I haven't thought of.

The "clones" will not. I'd therefore argue they're HiFi/HT amps, but certainly not PA amps.

Chris
 
The amp failed because the subs failed and the user failed. But I learned how to replace a board and bought bigger subs. They still rock.

Hmmm, please, say, for what from shown you use FP-series?

Let's not confuse the two amps.
Clearly!

FWIW, the difference between a good and bad PA system is what happens when you get close to the limits. A good system will compress the sound while maintaining tonality etc. An okay system will get a little crunchy from hard-clipping amplifiers. A very very bad system will let the magic smoke out and stop working forever.

No-no, you just say that a good PA-system just well-limited well before it's limits.

Of course, i can run my subs at a rated AES power per speaker, assuming worst case bass notes, but will this be a limit for my system? I suppose - no.

Being really - each system's limit are time-based windowing function. But none controllers could use this.
Say, for 10 seconds system could resist levels limited only by amps output and subs cone displacement. Next 10-20 sec system will be limited by a specimen of reproducing signal and its power distribution around sonic spectrum, say tender HF-coils will overheat faster than subs, but HF power integrally lower than LF. Further in time system probably will be limited by overall coil heating as a most insurmountable limit.
 
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But none controllers could use this.

Powersoft are doing it, right now.

You can even key one limiter off another.
ie, if the midrange is limiting, you can also reduce the HF level by the same amount so that the overall system tonality does not change.

There's also monitoring (and limiting) of the real power being delivered to each driver, RMS voltage and current (independently) limiting, etc etc.

Chris
 
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It wouldn't be a lot of work for Sanway to fix the protection issues considering they have all the required sensors. I presume they are just not interested/don't have the technical knowledge as these issues have been known about for years. Which company even originally designed these LG clones?

Recently I have also seen clones of Powersoft amplifiers (internal speaker module types), although as per the LG clones I don't think they are true clones (despite looking similar) as they don't have the Powersoft DSP and instead feature a china DSP adjusted via serial port. There are also amps for sale that look externally like a a powersoft M series but internally are some crappy 200W chinese amp and even ones that look a bit more convincing.
 
Powersoft are doing it, right now.

He-he, for the price of Boeing while it can be made inside any Driverack or like processor.

Fortunately this known as Turbo boost or throttling on the contrary, so i have no doubt, it will be realized in PA.

Also, any vented sub with a proper tuning of digital filtering can be extensively ventilated, so pushing limits higher. Just leave lower displacement peak and set subharmonic synth to that range.
 
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