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Building a new Rig: SMT-212, ES-218BPH, FP10000Q and FP14000
Building a new Rig: SMT-212, ES-218BPH, FP10000Q and FP14000
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Old 18th July 2019, 09:40 AM   #1
FlorianBrand is offline FlorianBrand
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Default Building a new Rig: SMT-212, ES-218BPH, FP10000Q and FP14000

Hi everyone,

First of all, I have to acknowledge that I have very limited audio background compared to most users here but I have learned a lot in this forum over the past 5 months by just reading along various threads.

The past 7 years I have used a fairly small active dB Technologies set up with 15" subs and 8" tops which have been played into clipping at may parties and thus have aged pretty badly and were just by far not up for the party's my friends and I are hosting.

Therefore I have decided to build my own rig which is now 90% done, only the second SMT 212 has to be built (unfortunately my table saw died last week...)

Now to my problems, coming from an active plug and play system I have no experience with setting limiters (on the dbx or the VPL on the amp) and setting the correct delay to adjust for the different pathlengths and to be in phase.

My current setup is the following:

"Sub" or low kick : ES-218BPH loaded with Omega Pro 18A so 1600W program and 3200W at peak at 4Ohm each, HPF at 45Hz and LPF at 150Hz, powered by the FP14000

Mid. (SMT-212) : double 12" B&C 12NDL76 with 800W program und 1600W peak at 4Ohms each, HPF 150Hz and LPF 2kHz, powered by the FP10000Q

High (SMT-212) : BMS 4550 1" with the Faital Pro LTH 102 ( this will be changed in the future to a Horn with wider dispersion, HPF 2kHz, powered by the FP10000Q

Processing and Amps :
DBX PA2
Sinbosen FP14000
Sinbosen FP10000Q

My main issue is that the SMT 212 sounds a bit numb and is missing some sparkle in the upper frequencies.
However, I am also struggling with delay and limiter setting so I am thankful for every guidance!
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Old 18th July 2019, 08:17 PM   #2
batdorf9 is offline batdorf9  United States
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Have you made any measurements, or are you just trying to tune by ear?
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Old 19th July 2019, 04:54 AM   #3
FlorianBrand is offline FlorianBrand
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by batdorf9 View Post
Have you made any measurements, or are you just trying to tune by ear?
I haven’t done any measurements since this is the area I am totally new too, any suggestions on where to read? I came
across the the smaart software but 900€ seems a bit steep.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:02 AM   #4
brig001 is offline brig001  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Jan 2009
REW ( REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software ) is free and really good
Behringer's measurement mic ( Behringer ECM8000 Measurement Microphone at Gear4music ) is good value
Behringer also have a good USB audio interface with phantom power ( Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD – Thomann UK )

I don't know where you are, so just picked suppliers that I have used, but you should be able to find the same or similar locally

Better stuff may be available, but I use these and have had no trouble

Brian
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Old 19th July 2019, 02:24 PM   #5
Damo s is offline Damo s  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Cambridge, UK
how much were the amps if you dont mind me asking?
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Old 20th July 2019, 03:32 PM   #6
FlorianBrand is offline FlorianBrand
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damo s View Post
how much were the amps if you dont mind me asking?
The amps are about 600$ each
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Old 20th July 2019, 03:52 PM   #7
FlorianBrand is offline FlorianBrand
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by brig001 View Post
REW ( REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software ) is free and really good
Behringer's measurement mic ( Behringer ECM8000 Measurement Microphone at Gear4music ) is good value
Behringer also have a good USB audio interface with phantom power ( Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD – Thomann UK )

I don't know where you are, so just picked suppliers that I have used, but you should be able to find the same or similar locally

Better stuff may be available, but I use these and have had no trouble

Brian
Thanks a lot Brian, I am located in Austria so it should be easy to get the stuff you posted.

Any suggestions on how to “tune by ear” in the meantime ?
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Old 25th July 2019, 01:33 PM   #8
FlorianBrand is offline FlorianBrand
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Any Suggestions on done readying material ?
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Old 25th July 2019, 09:51 PM   #9
MAAC0 is offline MAAC0  Portugal
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Join Date: May 2010
I remember reading You would first set the crossover SUB / MID frequency on the DBX first and then perform acoustic calibration with the supplied mic.
I did it once but placed the mic near the floor (20cm) on a stand but it was inside a wedding venue. Try 150-200 Hz.
Forget the manual it doesn't explain this important part, and it must be quiet inside the room.
Set Your source EQ flat and play some nice music. Don't use Phones or cheap mp3 players for this. Use an ordinary CD player or a good DJ console / Software / Laptop combo.
If you don't want to pink your room with the mic. I never do it anyway...
Play You subs first and watch the cones. Then add volume to tops until they sound almost balanced. Now tweak the EQ to fine tune the highs. Cut under 40Hz for protecting the subs and amps.
The 3-5K region is critical for horns. I use the standard ~ EQ curve. Try a good mic and test Your voice also.
Now Tweak the limiters. Start with overeasy setting raise volume and apply limiting and notice if the clip leds on the amplifiers begin to fade. If You apply too much limiting, You will hear the sound being compressed. If You apply too little the amps will clip. There will be a sort of compromise.. Now Save the settings on the DBX and take note of the pot settings on the amps. Invite some friends and if they like the sound leave it that way. Forget the ultra-harmonics or similar setting on the DBX unless You add more speakers and amps... well try 10 to 15% or clipping will haunt You.

Last edited by MAAC0; 25th July 2019 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 26th July 2019, 12:35 PM   #10
FlorianBrand is offline FlorianBrand
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAAC0 View Post
I remember reading You would first set the crossover SUB / MID frequency on the DBX first and then perform acoustic calibration with the supplied mic.
I did it once but placed the mic near the floor (20cm) on a stand but it was inside a wedding venue. Try 150-200 Hz.
Forget the manual it doesn't explain this important part, and it must be quiet inside the room.
Set Your source EQ flat and play some nice music. Don't use Phones or cheap mp3 players for this. Use an ordinary CD player or a good DJ console / Software / Laptop combo.
If you don't want to pink your room with the mic. I never do it anyway...
Play You subs first and watch the cones. Then add volume to tops until they sound almost balanced. Now tweak the EQ to fine tune the highs. Cut under 40Hz for protecting the subs and amps.
The 3-5K region is critical for horns. I use the standard ~ EQ curve. Try a good mic and test Your voice also.
Now Tweak the limiters. Start with overeasy setting raise volume and apply limiting and notice if the clip leds on the amplifiers begin to fade. If You apply too much limiting, You will hear the sound being compressed. If You apply too little the amps will clip. There will be a sort of compromise.. Now Save the settings on the DBX and take note of the pot settings on the amps. Invite some friends and if they like the sound leave it that way. Forget the ultra-harmonics or similar setting on the DBX unless You add more speakers and amps... well try 10 to 15% or clipping will haunt You.
Thanks a lot I will try this over the next weekend !
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