Hi everyone,
First of all, I have to acknowledge that I have very limited audio background compared to most users here but I have learned a lot in this forum over the past 5 months by just reading along various threads.
The past 7 years I have used a fairly small active dB Technologies set up with 15" subs and 8" tops which have been played into clipping at may parties and thus have aged pretty badly and were just by far not up for the party's my friends and I are hosting.
Therefore I have decided to build my own rig which is now 90% done, only the second SMT 212 has to be built (unfortunately my table saw died last week...)
Now to my problems, coming from an active plug and play system I have no experience with setting limiters (on the dbx or the VPL on the amp) and setting the correct delay to adjust for the different pathlengths and to be in phase.
My current setup is the following:
"Sub" or low kick : ES-218BPH loaded with Omega Pro 18A so 1600W program and 3200W at peak at 4Ohm each, HPF at 45Hz and LPF at 150Hz, powered by the FP14000
Mid. (SMT-212) : double 12" B&C 12NDL76 with 800W program und 1600W peak at 4Ohms each, HPF 150Hz and LPF 2kHz, powered by the FP10000Q
High (SMT-212) : BMS 4550 1" with the Faital Pro LTH 102 ( this will be changed in the future to a Horn with wider dispersion, HPF 2kHz, powered by the FP10000Q
Processing and Amps :
DBX PA2
Sinbosen FP14000
Sinbosen FP10000Q
My main issue is that the SMT 212 sounds a bit numb and is missing some sparkle in the upper frequencies.
However, I am also struggling with delay and limiter setting so I am thankful for every guidance!
First of all, I have to acknowledge that I have very limited audio background compared to most users here but I have learned a lot in this forum over the past 5 months by just reading along various threads.
The past 7 years I have used a fairly small active dB Technologies set up with 15" subs and 8" tops which have been played into clipping at may parties and thus have aged pretty badly and were just by far not up for the party's my friends and I are hosting.
Therefore I have decided to build my own rig which is now 90% done, only the second SMT 212 has to be built (unfortunately my table saw died last week...)
Now to my problems, coming from an active plug and play system I have no experience with setting limiters (on the dbx or the VPL on the amp) and setting the correct delay to adjust for the different pathlengths and to be in phase.
My current setup is the following:
"Sub" or low kick : ES-218BPH loaded with Omega Pro 18A so 1600W program and 3200W at peak at 4Ohm each, HPF at 45Hz and LPF at 150Hz, powered by the FP14000
Mid. (SMT-212) : double 12" B&C 12NDL76 with 800W program und 1600W peak at 4Ohms each, HPF 150Hz and LPF 2kHz, powered by the FP10000Q
High (SMT-212) : BMS 4550 1" with the Faital Pro LTH 102 ( this will be changed in the future to a Horn with wider dispersion, HPF 2kHz, powered by the FP10000Q
Processing and Amps :
DBX PA2
Sinbosen FP14000
Sinbosen FP10000Q
My main issue is that the SMT 212 sounds a bit numb and is missing some sparkle in the upper frequencies.
However, I am also struggling with delay and limiter setting so I am thankful for every guidance!
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I haven’t done any measurements since this is the area I am totally new too, any suggestions on where to read? I came
across the the smaart software but 900€ seems a bit steep.
REW ( REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software ) is free and really good
Behringer's measurement mic ( Behringer ECM8000 Measurement Microphone at Gear4music ) is good value
Behringer also have a good USB audio interface with phantom power ( Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD – Thomann UK )
I don't know where you are, so just picked suppliers that I have used, but you should be able to find the same or similar locally
Better stuff may be available, but I use these and have had no trouble
Brian
Behringer's measurement mic ( Behringer ECM8000 Measurement Microphone at Gear4music ) is good value
Behringer also have a good USB audio interface with phantom power ( Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD – Thomann UK )
I don't know where you are, so just picked suppliers that I have used, but you should be able to find the same or similar locally
Better stuff may be available, but I use these and have had no trouble
Brian
Thanks a lot Brian, I am located in Austria so it should be easy to get the stuff you posted.
Any suggestions on how to “tune by ear” in the meantime ?
I remember reading You would first set the crossover SUB / MID frequency on the DBX first and then perform acoustic calibration with the supplied mic.
I did it once but placed the mic near the floor (20cm) on a stand but it was inside a wedding venue. Try 150-200 Hz.
Forget the manual it doesn't explain this important part, and it must be quiet inside the room.
Set Your source EQ flat and play some nice music. Don't use Phones or cheap mp3 players for this. Use an ordinary CD player or a good DJ console / Software / Laptop combo.
If you don't want to pink your room with the mic. I never do it anyway...
Play You subs first and watch the cones. Then add volume to tops until they sound almost balanced. Now tweak the EQ to fine tune the highs. Cut under 40Hz for protecting the subs and amps.
The 3-5K region is critical for horns. I use the standard ~ EQ curve. Try a good mic and test Your voice also.
Now Tweak the limiters. Start with overeasy setting raise volume and apply limiting and notice if the clip leds on the amplifiers begin to fade. If You apply too much limiting, You will hear the sound being compressed. If You apply too little the amps will clip. There will be a sort of compromise.. Now Save the settings on the DBX and take note of the pot settings on the amps. Invite some friends and if they like the sound leave it that way. Forget the ultra-harmonics or similar setting on the DBX unless You add more speakers and amps... well try 10 to 15% or clipping will haunt You.
I did it once but placed the mic near the floor (20cm) on a stand but it was inside a wedding venue. Try 150-200 Hz.
Forget the manual it doesn't explain this important part, and it must be quiet inside the room.
Set Your source EQ flat and play some nice music. Don't use Phones or cheap mp3 players for this. Use an ordinary CD player or a good DJ console / Software / Laptop combo.
If you don't want to pink your room with the mic. I never do it anyway...
Play You subs first and watch the cones. Then add volume to tops until they sound almost balanced. Now tweak the EQ to fine tune the highs. Cut under 40Hz for protecting the subs and amps.
The 3-5K region is critical for horns. I use the standard ~ EQ curve. Try a good mic and test Your voice also.
Now Tweak the limiters. Start with overeasy setting raise volume and apply limiting and notice if the clip leds on the amplifiers begin to fade. If You apply too much limiting, You will hear the sound being compressed. If You apply too little the amps will clip. There will be a sort of compromise.. Now Save the settings on the DBX and take note of the pot settings on the amps. Invite some friends and if they like the sound leave it that way. Forget the ultra-harmonics or similar setting on the DBX unless You add more speakers and amps... well try 10 to 15% or clipping will haunt You.
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I don't know their exact weight but I would estimate them to be around 30 kgs depending on the drivers you use. I can lift them on my own but their size makes them more of a 2 man job.
Hi FlorianBrand.
Just a semi on topic question.
I'm looking at a similar fp14k amp from sanway. Would you be able to give me your impressions of your sinbosen when running several large subs?
Do you feel it has enough juice to really move them on demanding source material.
Any issues with the amps themselves?
Are they 240 volt models?
Real users of Lab Gruppen clones seem to be sorely lacking anywhere, so info is sparse.
I want to eventually use that type of amp for up to 3 - 18" per channel(6 total), so any real life usage experiences would be much appreciated!
If this is too OT please pm me. Thanks
Ps if the sinbosen is rated close to the sanway it should be :
8 ohms - 2400wpc
4 ohms - 4400wpc
2 ohms - 7000wpc
4 - 8 ohm subs per side is about 2 ohms in parallel. MIGHT be enough
I think these amplifiers can pull more than 60 amps from the wall.
Just a semi on topic question.
I'm looking at a similar fp14k amp from sanway. Would you be able to give me your impressions of your sinbosen when running several large subs?
Do you feel it has enough juice to really move them on demanding source material.
Any issues with the amps themselves?
Are they 240 volt models?
Real users of Lab Gruppen clones seem to be sorely lacking anywhere, so info is sparse.
I want to eventually use that type of amp for up to 3 - 18" per channel(6 total), so any real life usage experiences would be much appreciated!
If this is too OT please pm me. Thanks
Ps if the sinbosen is rated close to the sanway it should be :
8 ohms - 2400wpc
4 ohms - 4400wpc
2 ohms - 7000wpc
4 - 8 ohm subs per side is about 2 ohms in parallel. MIGHT be enough
I think these amplifiers can pull more than 60 amps from the wall.
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Hi Top Shelf,
The question is not at all off topic since I have been in the same position as you before I bought it. Yes it is the 240V Version with the European Plug (i am living in Austria). The FP 14000 i am currently powering the The two ES 218 BPH with it and it’s not even remotely using any of its potential thus I am current debating on building another two of the es218bph so i can run all of them as a 4 ohm load with the fp14000 in bridged mode which should be no problem at all from the usage I am currently seeing at body shaking volume levels.
There are only two real draw backs I have discovered so far, taking to the staff st sinnlosen the highly recommend against running a 2 ohm load which makes hat parallel connection of subs a bit tricky ( hence running it bridge into 4 cabs which effectively 8x18“ speakers). The second drawback ist that on a few occasions switching on has tripped the breaker which I guess is due to the missing inrush current limiter. Otherwise they are amazing especially at the price point!
I hope this helps !
In the Thread for the sanway fp14000 Someone Posted about the fp 20000
too seems to work well in home cinema application to drive large subs but haven’t read anything regarding its use in a PA system with much more continue s base. Just stay away from the fp22000 they seem to have a different design and tend to „blow up“ more often.
I am playing a lot of house/techno/trance and occasionally some edm
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