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Old 23rd July 2019, 04:43 PM   #21
kipman725 is offline kipman725  United Kingdom
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I have updated the first post after getting back from holiday.

I have often thought about powered speakers but the extra cabling gets pretty annoying, I wouldn't be able to cope with amp failure and my tops are already too heavy. I also need the rack anyway for the DSP and would need a lot of plate amps for my subs, while at the moment I just wire them as parallel series off a big amp. Probably appropriate for smaller systems.

I quite like the look of the K2 and STA-2000D so will keep a lookout for deals, another alternative is just designing my own amplifier but it would probably cost more than a commercial offering*

*as I love high spec power devices that cost 40 each....
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Old 23rd July 2019, 05:18 PM   #22
tonyman108 is offline tonyman108  United States
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I'm with you on the amp failure /flexibility issue. And the desire to use tweaky DSP that can be hard to find (or painful to pay for) in a non-OEM plate amp. That's what drove my in (back) the direction of 'separates', both for my mains and monitor rig. However, my 'B' rig (the powered Danleys + JBL 618XLF powered subs) is powered, and will probably stay that way... it is just too compellingly easy to set up powered speakers, especially in tight quarters.


That said, there *are* plate amps with FIR capable DSP.

USSpeaker sells these: DSP_PowerPack Modules | RAM Audio

And I've seen various Pascal/Marani plate amps on EBay, eg:

PASCAL W/ MARANI DSP PDA281PAF 2-Channel FIR Amplifier AUTHORIZED DEALER!!! | eBay

That stuff isn't cheap, but it is out there.

The powered-speaker cable clutter concerns can be addressed pretty cleanly with the purchase or construction of "Siamese" XLR/Power cables. For my powered rig (and my old one-rack-per-side dsp/amp setup, which intentionally uses compatible cabling) I went overboard and built my own, using shielded power cable & quad shield signal cable. The bundle is stuffed inside that braided expanding wire loom stuff. Looks tidy, and is dead quiet electrically.

Physics and experience suggest that the shielded power cable appears to be overkill; btw; I've gotten similarly quiet results using off-the-shelf extension cords bundled with high quality signal cables.

Last edited by tonyman108; 23rd July 2019 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 26th July 2019, 06:50 PM   #23
Jsixis is offline Jsixis  United States
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Look at the Crown K1 amp, this article here made me realize I have been wasting my money buying 1000 watt amplifiers. 300 is more then enough to fry any speaker.

Power Handling Vs. Efficiency
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Old 28th July 2019, 09:24 PM   #24
kipman725 is offline kipman725  United Kingdom
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You do need multi kW amps if your driving lots of subs, I'm running 12*15" drivers, soon 16. Nothings burnt out yet
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Old 28th July 2019, 09:39 PM   #25
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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Crown XLS DriveCore2 series are quiet - if the fan has come on my XLS 1502 driving JBL double 15" per bin, I have never heard it.
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Old 29th July 2019, 08:23 AM   #26
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsixis View Post
Look at the Crown K1 amp, this article here made me realize I have been wasting my money buying 1000 watt amplifiers. 300 is more than enough to fry any speaker.

Power Handling Vs. Efficiency
While Rod makes some good points, he has missed a few IMO:

- At low frequencies, efficiency is dictated by cabinet size. See Hoffman's Iron Law.
- High-efficiency drivers are usually not suited for LF reproduction, primarily because they tend to have limited Xmax. Take a look at 18Sound's range of 6" drivers for an idea - they range from midbass drivers with useful Xmax and efficiency in the low-90s, up to dedicated midrange drivers with almost zero Xmax, but up to 10dB more efficiency.
Which will have more useful LF output?


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Old 29th July 2019, 06:17 PM   #27
tonyman108 is offline tonyman108  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kipman725 View Post
You do need multi kW amps if your driving lots of subs, I'm running 12*15" drivers, soon 16. Nothings burnt out yet
Waaaaait a minute.. 16x 15" subs and you're worried about the fan noise in your DSP box? Based on that, I'd been envisioning a 12x16 apartment-sized listening room. Are you sure you don't have the space to relocate your amp racks to somewhere where the noise doesn't matter?

Regardless, I like your style

And btw/OT... the used Symetrix Jupiter 8 I'd mentioned showed up the other day, and unlike the Radius (and your 8x8?), it has no fan. Might be the upside to it using an external PSU.
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Old 30th July 2019, 08:05 AM   #28
kipman725 is offline kipman725  United Kingdom
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Here are some pics,

subs are in the four corners of the room for even bass. Two have 4 drivers and two have 2 drivers, I run each pair off a separate amp channel on the inuke. Tops are three ways with a plastic 90x40 horn modified to be a multiple entry horn. This allows me to cross to the mid-bass at 500 Hz keeping everything point source.

DSP is Symetrix 8x8 modified to have no fan and a Cobranet expansion.

Amps are Apart pa 2120 and inuke 6000. The amp at the bottom is just a spare and not normally used. The racks are internally wired so I can setup quickly.

I can't light the bottom signal light on the inuke without the house sounding like its falling apart so I'm planning on moving.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg AmpRack.jpeg (142.3 KB, 225 views)
File Type: jpg Subs.jpg (243.0 KB, 224 views)
File Type: jpg living_room.jpg (197.5 KB, 222 views)
File Type: jpg back_rack.jpg (241.9 KB, 223 views)
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Old 30th July 2019, 05:01 PM   #29
tonyman108 is offline tonyman108  United States
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Originally Posted by kipman725 View Post
I can't light the bottom signal light on the inuke without the house sounding like its falling apart so I'm planning on moving.
Sounds like you have your priorities in order!

I'm fortunate enough to have a little bit of space between my (detached, decently large, somewhat soundproofed) listening space and my neighbors. I did the soundproofing measures (double 5/8" sheetrock on floating 'z' channel) primarily to get the noise floor down while recording, but it comes in handy when I'm running rehearsals or 'vigorous' listening sessions. It is quite literally the only place I've ever lived as an adult where I've never been visited by the police fore a noise complaint. Indoors, at least

Unfortunately it is a wood-framed building, so at a certain point it also starts to sound like its falling apart. The floating sheetrock also seems to act like a giant bass trap. I wasn't thinking far enough ahead when I built the building.


The gentleman who built this house, on the other hand, *did* think far enough ahead... that's me, inside one of his speakers ;0)
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File Type: jpg 20190314_212926 (2).jpg (595.2 KB, 213 views)

Last edited by tonyman108; 30th July 2019 at 05:05 PM. Reason: (fixed photo orientation)
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Old 30th July 2019, 07:49 PM   #30
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Quiet PA amps
First thought: Biggest synergy horn I've seen.
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