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Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!
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Old 7th May 2019, 08:53 PM   #31
kipman725 is offline kipman725  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
That is true, but power is not a concern.

Nevertheless, let us look at the factors involved:
The NX1000D has DSP, but it is noisy! Only balanced in and Speakon out.
The A800 has no fan = silent operation, and it has balanced + unbalanced inputs and Speakon + screw terminals for backup.

If someone manages to screw up and break stuff, I see value in the seemingly redundant connectivity options of the A800, as well as less chance of failure should something happen to the fan and some failsafe circuit on the NX1000D engages.
small correction the nx1000D accepts balanced and unbalanced the input connector accepts both XLR and 1/4inch TR. Has anyone seen a review of the A800? I am considering a few of them for home use.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:09 PM   #32
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
Actually, it's about 5db less with max 100w input. The 15" moves more air.
According to Fane datashets, it is just 1.8 dB less at full allowable power and only 1 dB less at all powers below 250 W.
Sensitivity of 15-300TC is about 99 dB/2.83V/1m and sensitivity of 12-250TC is about 98 dB, so the difference is only 1 dB for the same voltage input.
Max AES power handling of 15-300TC is 300 W and max power handling of 12-250TC is 250 W, so the difference from the max power is only 0.8 dB.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:02 AM   #33
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!
Kipman, I have not seen any reviews of it, but the ones that have bought it seem happy in general. If I had more money, I'd immediately jump on the img STA-400D, it has decent quality hypex modules and much better noise figures

Sonce, so you have not run any sims, and you are saying that the 12" and the 15" are equal in bass performance because they have equal sensitivity at 1khz? .....

Granted, the xmax is similar, but the area of displacement is a little bit bigger.
The 12" is content with a 120liter box but the 15" wants 225liters or more. My sim was 225 liters, I have a picture of it here on my phone, but I have some problems posting pictures from my phone, and ho.e computer is 500km away. I can transfer them to my latop later perhaps.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:21 AM   #34
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
are saying that the 12" and the 15" are equal in bass performance because they have equal sensitivity at 1khz?
No, but because of this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
The 12" is content with a 120liter box but the 15" wants 225liters or more.
In the same small box (say, 120 liters) the low end is comparable between the two. If you can manage box with double volume, go for it, the 15" will have deeper bass.

Edit: Sensitivity of 12" is 98 dB from 100 Hz to 1 kHz, sensitivity for 15" is 99 dB from 50 Hz to 1 kHz. The 12-250TC will be just 1 dB less loud than 15-300TC from 100 Hz to 1 kHz, up to 250W. 15-300TC can deliver deeper and louder bass below 100 Hz, but only in a bigger box.

Last edited by Sonce; 8th May 2019 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:34 AM   #35
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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It is not the first time I have mentioned bigger size box for the 15", it does not have the parameters to do well in 120liters, and the 12" will not give much more no matter what box. If you run a simulation you will also see the 15" has 4-5db more output overal from 200-300hz down.

But this is ridiculous, the driver will be the 12", so why are you coming with these arguments now?
Makes me think you are more interested in winning some lame argument rather than looking at facts.
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Old 8th May 2019, 07:11 AM   #36
SubSoniks is offline SubSoniks  Wales
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Having just skimmed over this thread a few observations:
Check with your airline whether they will let you travel with those magnets in your baggage IIRC there are regulations on magnet field strengths and some airlines may just find it easier to ban passengers carrying them.
All balanced inputs can be wired as unbalanced by connecting the cold pin to the screen, ie. pin 1-3.
A larger cone with the same travel is capable of moving more air, that can be used to extend the low end response or reduce cone excursion.
Putting these 'hi q' drivers into small ported boxes will result in a hump above the tuning and reduced output at tuning, both can be compensated for with eq.
12-250tc in a 40 - 50 litre box tuned to around 55Hz - 65Hz will handle approx 250 Wrms, bigger box and you will loose power handling due to excursion, former more useful for high SPL use with more powerful amp.
Kaffiman, I take it you haven't had a go with the foam yet?
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Old 8th May 2019, 12:35 PM   #37
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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There you are :-)
Ofcourse I was thinking of grills and ocf! :-) perfect for this little project!

And the very first thing that came to mind was the wonderful Fane FR units, but I keep trying to find better things at the cheap end of the scale, my OCD for have to beat the Fane value for money reference at some point.
Maybe next time.

I will be sure to get the sims up and running on my laptop, maybe I have time for it ca 22:30 this evening. I remember most of the numbers so it should be quick.
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Old 8th May 2019, 08:56 PM   #38
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Here's the result from max SPL curves, singles and pairs.
Xmax and 100w amp power are the main limitations.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 12-250TC 122 liters.jpg (175.8 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg 15-300TC 122 liters.jpg (178.9 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg 15-300TC 250 liters.jpg (180.7 KB, 93 views)
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:09 PM   #39
kipman725 is offline kipman725  United Kingdom
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As you mentioned damaged drivers due to over excursion before; how are you implementing the high pass filter to prevent this happening again? looks like <35Hz is danger zone for excursion.
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Old 10th May 2019, 05:37 AM   #40
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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I was thinking perhaps the Yamaha AG03 or AG06 had HP filters, thought I read something about it, will have to check. Getting a cheap dsp like the 4*4 one from thomann is still on the table.
But then again it might be better to have an analog solution.

Undecided, will have to check the alternatives properly.

I just got gome from work 23:40 last night, gonna use today figuring stuff out and hopefully start ordering parts.

Edit:
Small note on why the w5-1611sa broke. He was impressed with the bass those little things made, and he was watching the glass in the windows vibrate.... Then I did not get any more messages, probably because he broke them.

Last edited by KaffiMann; 10th May 2019 at 05:45 AM.
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