Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

PA Systems A forum for discussion of all parts of a sound reinforcement or DJ system: loudspeakers, mixers (desks) etc.

Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!
Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th May 2019, 05:07 PM   #11
KaffiMann is online now KaffiMann  Norway
Fanatic
diyAudio Member
 
KaffiMann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grua, not far from Oslo.
Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!
I must respectfully disagree that the 15-300TC has poor dispersion, after taking care of some resonant behaviour with my DSP setup, it is better in many regards than quite a few smaller FR's I have heard.
And after reading up on the NX1000D and it's flaws, I am thinking it would be better to buy a cheap but good TPA3255 in a box with volume knob.
This will also make the 2 x 15" much more realistic, since the TPA3255 takes up so little space.

I already own the 15-300TC, I bought some of the very first of these drivers, it is impressive in so many ways.
Would you rather have a single pair of 12" than a single pair of 15"?

There is no way whatsoever that I am bringing 4 x 12" in my suitcase! It is too much!

Also, you keep suggesting the NX3000 even though I have specifically mentioned that there is a very limited amount of power available.

Even the NX1000 is pushing it! Anything with more power will not even be able to power up at all! Even with really good soft start on a big power amp the fuse might blow, since it's absolute max 10A FOR AN ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD + 1 SHOP AND A CAFE.

After some more thinking, I have decided the speakers must be sealed boxes, because of insects, lizards and rodents, it will be too tempting for geckos and rats to start living in there if the box is vented... It will be hard to make vented boxes safe enough.

So:
Fane 15-300TC
+
TPA3255 (Compact + low weight class D, good on performance, power efficiency, small size and low weight)
+
??? dsp (Perhaps this one? t.racks dsp 4x4 mini, because of price, and most importantly, it's in a box)
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 07:27 PM   #12
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
I just ordered this DSP with a pair of 12" Fanes. I may have some first impressions by the end of next week. The features look good as well as the software.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2019, 10:52 PM   #13
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Macedonia
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
I must respectfully disagree that the 15-300TC has poor dispersion,
Every full-range has very poor dispersion at high frequencies compared to any 2-way loudspeaker with high frequency driver plus horn. DSP can not improve dispersion, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
I already own the 15-300TC,
Well, this is the first time you mentioned that. So, when the budget is tight, then the choice is easy - use what you already have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
I have decided the speakers must be sealed boxes, because of insects, lizards and rodents, it will be too tempting for geckos and rats to start living in there if the box is vented... It will be hard to make vented boxes safe enough.
Actually, it is quite easy - metal wire mesh or perforated metal grille, covered inside with thin open-pore foam. That is the standard feature of all professional PA sound reinforcement loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 12:17 AM   #14
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Northern germany
As far as I know, Bali is Indonesia? In Indonesia a lot of loudspeakers we buy are manufactured. I donīt know why you want to bring Chinese stuff, bought in Europe, to a country that has very good speaker manufacturers.
Also, your idea of building an active speaker system from Wondom parts (much to expensive junk), in a place where electricity is rare and while you solder, ratīs chew your wires, seems unrealistic. Buy a Behringer NX1000D, source localy speakers, build a box with basic passive 12 dB/oct frequency x-over and trim the bass and high with the DSP oft the amp.
The amp has a soft start and draws very little energy, there is no other concept that is more efficient. If you canīt draw that little energy from the line, buy acoustic instruments and make music with your hands!
If the end user is an idiot, who ruins gear by playingt it intentionally too loud, donīt expect anything to last... small brothers are that way, some times...

Good luck

PS donīt forget the import taxes, that will be charged when you enter the country with a bag full of raw electronics,wires and heavy stuff. But, probably at the first airport you will be identified as muslim extremist with a bomb anyhow and miss your flight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 06:39 AM   #15
KaffiMann is online now KaffiMann  Norway
Fanatic
diyAudio Member
 
KaffiMann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grua, not far from Oslo.
Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!
... I hear what you guys are saying, and maybe some places in Indonesia electronics are easily available.
But what I'seen in Bali is that the prices are higher and the selection very poor.
In a place where for instance diapers are more expensive than here in Norway, and one persons income per month is ca 230$.
They just can not afford luxury items like a stereo, things that many here take for granted.

If you go blindly about with they eyes of a tourist you may never notice this, but the people live hard lives, many work 12hour days for not much money, and they have to buy purified water for drinking. Propane for cooking costs a lot of money, heating water for showers or cleaning is a luxury that is too expensive for the locals. And it is not that hot everywhere, in Kintamani where the family lives it was mostly 12-15 degrees c and for the most part constant fog last time we where there.

The times I've gone there before, I have brought stuff like first aid equipment, since noone wil let the ambulance "sneak" in still standing traffic...
I have brought basic tools like saws, axes screwdrivers, because they have to travel far to find these things in a big wharehouse, and then it is a little bit more expensive than here, but horrible quality...
I have brought sweaters and weather resistant jackets so they do not have to be wet and cold.

This year I am bringing stuff to fix the speakers we made together years ago, and some new drivers so they can get a little bit of sound and maybe increase the income of the cafe a little bit. I am also bringing water filters so they do not have to spend so much money on bottled water.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 08:35 AM   #16
simon7000 is offline simon7000  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oakmont PA
First for all the non native English speaking folks, dispersion is not the dame as coverage angle when used in acoustics. Dispersion is the property that allows a prism to separate the colors of light. It refers to the fact in some media high frequencies travel faster than the lower ones. This does not occur in mono atomic gases. In real air it is affected by the humidity.

Secondly a ported box is really the way to go. Use fine wire mesh or window screen material to keep vermin out. It will require a bit bigger port area as screen is not 100% open area.

The other item might be to buy a used audio power amplifier to save a bit of money.

Also folks seem to be confused with on axis frequency response and actual energy output. With any cone driver the coverage narrows as frequency increases so with declining energy output the on axis frequency response remains flat.

As to cone over excursion it can be either operating at too low of a frequency, but more likely a resonance. A bit of fiberglass or even fabric stuffing may solve the issue.

Finally one friend rented an old beat up road case to take a brand new musical instrument through customs. He of course left with the case containing a cheap knock off.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 09:27 AM   #17
KaffiMann is online now KaffiMann  Norway
Fanatic
diyAudio Member
 
KaffiMann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grua, not far from Oslo.
Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!
Thank you Simon, I think that's the most helpful post so far.

I will have to bring some wire mesh, I can get bug mesh down there.
Ported boxes do indeed have quite a lot of advantages if done correctly.

Nothing is set in stone, or this thread would not exist, but so far it seems that a pair of either the Fane 12-250TC or the 15-300TC + a TPA3255 will give most output per amount of money in relation to weight.
Box volume is not fixed, can be increased it if nets extra output. Woodwork is cheap down there...

I am open for other suggestions and/or constructive criticism, as long as these factors are taken into account:
1. Limited total weight of components.
2. Limited physical volume of components. (In my bag with clothes etc.)
3. Limited power available on site.
4. Limited budget. (I will have to bring other hard to get items as well, I am not rich.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 11:19 AM   #18
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Macedonia
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
First for all the non native English speaking folks, dispersion is not the dame as coverage angle when used in acoustics. Dispersion is the property that allows a prism to separate the colors of light.
Thanks for the clarification, "coverage angle" is the right description, I used the word "dispersion" in a rather wide meaning found in the Google dictionary:

dispersion
/dɪˈspəːʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: dispersion
1.
the action or process of distributing things or people over a wide area.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2019, 08:25 AM   #19
Damo s is offline Damo s  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Cambridge, UK
The tops in my cheap PA are the fane 15 full range drivers, driven by an inuke 3000 dsp. You will need DSP on these drivers or they sound peaky in the midrange. Ive currently got 3 heafty EQ cuts at (IIRC, quite a few db at 2k, 4k and 7k). They sound OK now, but definitely not OK without the DSP.

Personally I would look at second hand stuff if budget is tight. If you want a remotely decent sounding system on the cheap its worth spending a little more and having a sub in my opinion. The fanes will deliver bass but you will have to dial in a fairly huge boost at the bottom end meaning an overall drop in level and the top end becomes a bit distorted (doppler distortion, as I found out here the other day).

If you went for a cheaper sub driver, e.g. Eminence Kappa 15LF - 15", you could probably build a decent 600 watt sub for about 200 quid. Then the lower end response of the mids / tops doesnt matter since they wont have to handle anything below 100hz or so. You also would need 2 amps (or a 4 channel amp) with DSP to effectively dial in a crossover point (sub / tops respectively).

There is a tonne of second hand PA stuff available on facebook selling pages and ebay and at good prices.

If its any help I have a pair of peavey 300 watt 15" drivers sitting about doing nothing. They could make a working sub, or use them as part of full range speakers by adding tweeters. if you cover the shipping costs I'm happy to send them over.

Last edited by Damo s; 7th May 2019 at 08:32 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2019, 12:02 PM   #20
Sonce is offline Sonce  Macedonia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Macedonia
OP specifically mentioned that there is a very limited amount of power available from the power grid and also he can't move big boxes around. Because he already have 15-300TC, one pair of vented boxes for them with some EQ boost at the box tuning frequency are the best option.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Need some help planning a CHEAP PA setup!Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Very cheap 5.1 chip setup? Havoxx Chip Amps 9 24th April 2011 07:09 PM
Planning new setup, need help (long) SilverJS Subwoofers 7 22nd March 2006 08:20 AM
trying to figure out a cheap sub setup AutoAudio Subwoofers 14 6th December 2005 01:09 PM
Cheap active setup. JZatopa Digital Source 0 20th March 2005 01:16 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:05 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki