No it does audio too. The JBL system works like Ethernet, there is only 1 port on a speaker so connecting multiple boxes requires an ethernet hub. The Behringer system is more like Dante, each speaker has 2 ports(In and Out) so you can daisy chain a bunch of them together and only need 1 home run back to the mixer. In both cases each speaker gets a unique network address and will only play the audio track assigned to that address so you could for example have a line of monitors across a stage with each one receiving a different mix.. all on 1 cable. Pretty cool stuff.
JBL has a couple Apps that can operate on their system, the PC version is called Audio Architect which can run in parallel with an audio streaming package.
Yeah, I admit to not being very knowledgeable about very pro PA stuff, but it is my understanding that the DZR tops/DXS bass series from Yamaha is very good value for money. And it is most definitely PRO gear! I do not think you read up on the DZR315 Tom, there's two versions, with Dante or without Dante, both versions should be enough for a good party by themselves. Stepping up the game further would be the DZR12 and the DXS18, two of each. Clean tidy setup, need a small mixer for mikes and whatnot.
One step up from SRX835P is VP7315. I have no any idea why that speaker is that expensive.
there was a time years ago when I was looking at all the 3 ways:
Mackie HD-1531
QSC KW-153
JBL PRX735 / 835 / SRX835P
EV ETX-35P
.....
I then decided to overhaul my old passive 15-3 s.
Now I am again looking at alternatives ....
there was a time years ago when I was looking at all the 3 ways:
Mackie HD-1531
QSC KW-153
JBL PRX735 / 835 / SRX835P
EV ETX-35P
.....
I then decided to overhaul my old passive 15-3 s.
Now I am again looking at alternatives ....
I am still more inclined to go the powersoft T604 way instead of the active speaker way. Will see a local dealer by end of April.
So is there any ultra-small ultra-light-weight high SPL passive 15" subs (8Ohms)?
I'd sacrifice bandwith and cost goal if the above two goals SPL / size /weight can be met.
I am OK with - say - 40Hz!
What about the current state of passive top speakers? I have not followed the development in detail over the last years. How are 2 ways different from 3 ways SQ-wise? Is there any remedy for the woofer modulating the midrange in 2 way speakers? Can a compact 12" speaker today do what my 20+ year old 15-3 was doing, weighing only a fraction? I am not going to carry 40 kg speakers.
I am looking for SPL, low size and weight. I want good SQ. To enable those goals, I am willing to spend some €€$$.
Any suggestions?
So is there any ultra-small ultra-light-weight high SPL passive 15" subs (8Ohms)?
I'd sacrifice bandwith and cost goal if the above two goals SPL / size /weight can be met.
I am OK with - say - 40Hz!
What about the current state of passive top speakers? I have not followed the development in detail over the last years. How are 2 ways different from 3 ways SQ-wise? Is there any remedy for the woofer modulating the midrange in 2 way speakers? Can a compact 12" speaker today do what my 20+ year old 15-3 was doing, weighing only a fraction? I am not going to carry 40 kg speakers.
I am looking for SPL, low size and weight. I want good SQ. To enable those goals, I am willing to spend some €€$$.
Any suggestions?
My subs would probably do it: Chris's "Teeny tiny PA 15" sub (Horn) - Final Version?
Although once I've got a van I'll probably re-build so some of them are 2x15" cabs - easier for transport as I'll just add tilt-back wheels.
With regards to the main speakers, I'd say a good 2-way will do just fine for a lot of venues. The way around LF distortion is to add subwoofers, or just use good midbass drivers and a fairly low crossover point to the compression driver.
Here's what I did with a 3-way system:
- 2x Faital Pro 15HP1060
- 2x Faital Pro 10FH520
- 1x 18Sound ND1460 on an RCF HF94
per side.
YouTube
Everything was pretty much limiting at the same time, although more bass-heavy program material would require extra subwoofers. I now have eight in total, which enables the system to cover some fairly large areas.
If you want to go to a 4-way system for big venues, I'd study Nexo Alpha very carefully - understand what they did and why.
Chris
Although once I've got a van I'll probably re-build so some of them are 2x15" cabs - easier for transport as I'll just add tilt-back wheels.
With regards to the main speakers, I'd say a good 2-way will do just fine for a lot of venues. The way around LF distortion is to add subwoofers, or just use good midbass drivers and a fairly low crossover point to the compression driver.
Here's what I did with a 3-way system:
- 2x Faital Pro 15HP1060
- 2x Faital Pro 10FH520
- 1x 18Sound ND1460 on an RCF HF94
per side.
YouTube
Everything was pretty much limiting at the same time, although more bass-heavy program material would require extra subwoofers. I now have eight in total, which enables the system to cover some fairly large areas.
If you want to go to a 4-way system for big venues, I'd study Nexo Alpha very carefully - understand what they did and why.
Chris
My current system is already 4way (but amp-wise only 2way).
It does max. 132dB C weighted slow average at 1m (indoor). That is quite some shaking noise. The roof tiles of the house are vibrating - the sound is awful, for a listener from outdoor. GRRT GRRT GRRT..
I will read through your "teeny tiny" thread if I find time.
What XOVER frequencies did you set up in the 3way-system?
It does max. 132dB C weighted slow average at 1m (indoor). That is quite some shaking noise. The roof tiles of the house are vibrating - the sound is awful, for a listener from outdoor. GRRT GRRT GRRT..
I will read through your "teeny tiny" thread if I find time.
What XOVER frequencies did you set up in the 3way-system?
What are your current speakers?
The SRX800p series are a step above all the others listed there as they use a large format compression driver(3" VC 1.4" exit), includes extensive user adjustable DSP processing and the HiQ net interface, there is nothing else in this price bracket with so much to offer.
The EV boxes probably have just as much DSP inside but the end user can't touch most of it and there is no remote access at all. I am a fan and current owner of ZLX and EKX series boxes, these things just flat out work and I find no need to do much with the DSP besides select whatever preset best suites the use at hand. That says a lot about that processing though, I put these things in front of DJs and don't have to worry about them blowing drivers because the built-in limiting does such a good job, not only does it protect things well it is also transparent to the end user and guests.
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For high-power use, I was at 120Hz and 1.1kHz. Normally the M/HF crossover is a little lower, but I wanted to make sure the diaphragms survived.
Chris
my thoughts , relevant or not
I use dante, i use blue, if i have to. i use usb,, but i use line out most of the time, even though it's a lot of work and a lot of wire, but i get the best sound, all mixing and individual levels are done at each active unit , all always in mono, except on the stage. the question is what are we trying to do? what do we need to overcome?
i've gone both ways, i was using active great and ezy, but lately i did an event, that was given an old school passive, pevey amp and large jbl's and ev's, 8 in all
3200 wrms total with a simple mixer, a massive system to move but it sounded great.but a lot of large heavy speaker wire..
okay with that said
I have my Yamaha motif xs8 and really wanted a single system (active) to reproduce all it has , i think it goes down to 23.5hz, pretty low, anyway none of my active systems would do it. ended up with an old pair of fisher 15" 3 way with an old marantz class A ,
only looking for grand piano sound ,
then also (IRS5 made in 1985) pure musical satisfaction !! wow, what a statement
great ,but in my living room, an old pair of jbl monster twin 12" with a passive radiator , ported 3 way about 5 feet tall bgw power amp , used as my sound system in my house with a digital switcher , again in my house.
none ever leaves my house or go on jobs.
So for the sake of sound reinforcement in at a large wedding per say, it's going to be active all the way , hands down , at a concert in a park, a combination of everything i can get my hands on
but getting the sound out of my yamaha in my garage was all i wanted.
so what do i want, it's more like what i don't want, I don't want to wast a lot of money on eq. that i'm going to be moving around a lot, so use in-exspensive active system for low level sound all around a room for an events , higher more expensive up front where it starts.
my thoughts only , thanks for listing
I use dante, i use blue, if i have to. i use usb,, but i use line out most of the time, even though it's a lot of work and a lot of wire, but i get the best sound, all mixing and individual levels are done at each active unit , all always in mono, except on the stage. the question is what are we trying to do? what do we need to overcome?
i've gone both ways, i was using active great and ezy, but lately i did an event, that was given an old school passive, pevey amp and large jbl's and ev's, 8 in all
3200 wrms total with a simple mixer, a massive system to move but it sounded great.but a lot of large heavy speaker wire..
okay with that said
I have my Yamaha motif xs8 and really wanted a single system (active) to reproduce all it has , i think it goes down to 23.5hz, pretty low, anyway none of my active systems would do it. ended up with an old pair of fisher 15" 3 way with an old marantz class A ,
only looking for grand piano sound ,
then also (IRS5 made in 1985) pure musical satisfaction !! wow, what a statement
great ,but in my living room, an old pair of jbl monster twin 12" with a passive radiator , ported 3 way about 5 feet tall bgw power amp , used as my sound system in my house with a digital switcher , again in my house.
none ever leaves my house or go on jobs.
So for the sake of sound reinforcement in at a large wedding per say, it's going to be active all the way , hands down , at a concert in a park, a combination of everything i can get my hands on
but getting the sound out of my yamaha in my garage was all i wanted.
so what do i want, it's more like what i don't want, I don't want to wast a lot of money on eq. that i'm going to be moving around a lot, so use in-exspensive active system for low level sound all around a room for an events , higher more expensive up front where it starts.
my thoughts only , thanks for listing
what do we do?
to ViannaTom
re-reading your first post, I have to ask what are you using this all for?
large event? stage sound, hanging systems?
i'm doing the event hall in 1wtc nyc and they specked out all powersoft and bose amps, with a mix of bose , jbl and yamaha speakers.. very massive rack (3 racks make 1)
15 in all ... anyway i have no say over what is specked i just build this stuff even if it doesn't make any sense to me. Did an event last night in nb nj, thats all old school power and massive amount of stage mounted subs and highs and massive amount of hanging mids, plus countless amounts of low level sound reinforcement and 4 or 5 massive mixing
board, but from the sound boards to the amps its always dante now...
So it matters what you do. and the end results to the listener i'm always very critical
If i go to any event as an audience i always go to whoever is at the board and tell them where i'm sitting and what i am hearing. I watch the musicians see what they are playing and if i hear it, like a harp or like a flute, if I see it i want to hear it.
I don't think if your on the road you can get away with it being an easy set up or light or in-expensive. Personally i like raw power and large speakers, I love pure power and stacks of speaker walls. but in today's world it's not likely we ever get to see it.
as far as blu is concerned you can go other remote transmitted routes for not a fortune but not as cheep as blu, like i said before, I always go line out and deal with the audio cable. good luck in trying to figure this out, i've been doing this for a long time and i still haven't gotten it right
to ViannaTom
re-reading your first post, I have to ask what are you using this all for?
large event? stage sound, hanging systems?
i'm doing the event hall in 1wtc nyc and they specked out all powersoft and bose amps, with a mix of bose , jbl and yamaha speakers.. very massive rack (3 racks make 1)
15 in all ... anyway i have no say over what is specked i just build this stuff even if it doesn't make any sense to me. Did an event last night in nb nj, thats all old school power and massive amount of stage mounted subs and highs and massive amount of hanging mids, plus countless amounts of low level sound reinforcement and 4 or 5 massive mixing
board, but from the sound boards to the amps its always dante now...
So it matters what you do. and the end results to the listener i'm always very critical
If i go to any event as an audience i always go to whoever is at the board and tell them where i'm sitting and what i am hearing. I watch the musicians see what they are playing and if i hear it, like a harp or like a flute, if I see it i want to hear it.
I don't think if your on the road you can get away with it being an easy set up or light or in-expensive. Personally i like raw power and large speakers, I love pure power and stacks of speaker walls. but in today's world it's not likely we ever get to see it.
as far as blu is concerned you can go other remote transmitted routes for not a fortune but not as cheep as blu, like i said before, I always go line out and deal with the audio cable. good luck in trying to figure this out, i've been doing this for a long time and i still haven't gotten it right
I am definitely not "on the road". Did I say that? I like going out to the park or joining the carnival or playing tunes for a local party - for free.
Currently I have:
1) A soundboks 2 - portable, easy setup, but SPL-wise not even enough for the occasional flash mob party outside, since the bass is DISAPPEARING after a few meters!!
2) A 4 way system 2 x 18", 2 x 15", 2 x 8", 2 x CD - sounds nice, but needs AC power and is definitely NOT portable (~180kg total).
Guess what I want?
I want the portability / setup easiness of the Soundboks 2 and the output of the 4 way system combined in one system!!
Currently I have:
1) A soundboks 2 - portable, easy setup, but SPL-wise not even enough for the occasional flash mob party outside, since the bass is DISAPPEARING after a few meters!!
2) A 4 way system 2 x 18", 2 x 15", 2 x 8", 2 x CD - sounds nice, but needs AC power and is definitely NOT portable (~180kg total).
Guess what I want?
I want the portability / setup easiness of the Soundboks 2 and the output of the 4 way system combined in one system!!
ok with that said soundboks2 is a good system from what i have read it's what you wnat , but you are not getting the results you want. Have you considered building what you want
it might not be as easily movable as you want but with a battery cart and power amp combined you can get the power you need and you can then use passive speakers
hate to say this but much like you would build for a car.
if you have no access to ac power and need 12vdc you can get a lot of power for the money
I have 2x12 and a mono block in my truck that alone can give you all the bass you want I run about 1000w into 8 ohms, then i use jb control 25s under all the seats and 2 way 8inch in all the doors at parking lot events i put the jbls on the with the 2x12s and open all the doors it's a lot of sound.
i probably have 1000$us invested in all including 2 extra batteries ,
unless you get another soundboks and modify it?? I dont know what i would do.
I use to do floats for parades i used a generator and 2 massive Bose acustamass pros built in biamped with a 16inch 16 ohm total about 3000what at 16 ohm and the standered 5inch drivers i trhink 10 on each , they had the power to overcome evrything around it, not the best sound but i almost always had at least 100db or more of ambient noise i was dealing with.
just a thought
it might not be as easily movable as you want but with a battery cart and power amp combined you can get the power you need and you can then use passive speakers
hate to say this but much like you would build for a car.
if you have no access to ac power and need 12vdc you can get a lot of power for the money
I have 2x12 and a mono block in my truck that alone can give you all the bass you want I run about 1000w into 8 ohms, then i use jb control 25s under all the seats and 2 way 8inch in all the doors at parking lot events i put the jbls on the with the 2x12s and open all the doors it's a lot of sound.
i probably have 1000$us invested in all including 2 extra batteries ,
unless you get another soundboks and modify it?? I dont know what i would do.
I use to do floats for parades i used a generator and 2 massive Bose acustamass pros built in biamped with a 16inch 16 ohm total about 3000what at 16 ohm and the standered 5inch drivers i trhink 10 on each , they had the power to overcome evrything around it, not the best sound but i almost always had at least 100db or more of ambient noise i was dealing with.
just a thought
So that is what I have (see attached foto):
Per side: 18NLW9400 (40 - 110Hz - tuned to 45Hz), Beyma 15MI100 (110 - 400Hz - tuned to 60Hz), RCF L8L750 (400 - 3750Hz), RCF 1" mylar voice coil horn tweeter (3750Hz+)
Question: If we don't talk about cheapskating $$$, if I even give up the 40Hz LF BW for some - say - omg that compromise is really hurting - 50Hz:
-> Is there ANY technical chance on earth to get equal SPL using 1 x 15", 1 x 12" plus 1 x compression driver per side (powred by T604) at a total half the physical system volume / half the system weight???
(Remember, I can already save big time space and weight replacing the amp rack by 1 x T604 - so the speakers need not be half physical volume in order to reach the goal of having the whole system's weight and volume halved).
The file upload dialogue here is buggy as hell!!!! Why cant the software resize the jpgs automagically? I need to try several times to shrink the file what a s***!! Lets see if it worked now...
Per side: 18NLW9400 (40 - 110Hz - tuned to 45Hz), Beyma 15MI100 (110 - 400Hz - tuned to 60Hz), RCF L8L750 (400 - 3750Hz), RCF 1" mylar voice coil horn tweeter (3750Hz+)
Question: If we don't talk about cheapskating $$$, if I even give up the 40Hz LF BW for some - say - omg that compromise is really hurting - 50Hz:
-> Is there ANY technical chance on earth to get equal SPL using 1 x 15", 1 x 12" plus 1 x compression driver per side (powred by T604) at a total half the physical system volume / half the system weight???
(Remember, I can already save big time space and weight replacing the amp rack by 1 x T604 - so the speakers need not be half physical volume in order to reach the goal of having the whole system's weight and volume halved).
The file upload dialogue here is buggy as hell!!!! Why cant the software resize the jpgs automagically? I need to try several times to shrink the file what a s***!! Lets see if it worked now...
Attachments
It looks to me like those 18"s are rather short on port area, so you might not be realising their full potential anyway. To give you an idea, the ones I'm running have a port area around 1/4x Sd (at the narrowest point - they're tapered in the middle), and show around 2dB of compression when you drop a 1KW sine tone at the 40Hz tuning frequency.
Given that, I'd expect a good 15" to keep up just fine.
If you're using 1x 15", you could use a 10"/1" main speaker. FWIW, the Faital Pro 10HX230 is pretty good. I've had 125dB sine tones from 100Hz upwards out of mine, although distortion was starting to rise.
You could spend less money by re-using one of your existing 18"s in a box that's tuned higher.
Chris
Given that, I'd expect a good 15" to keep up just fine.
If you're using 1x 15", you could use a 10"/1" main speaker. FWIW, the Faital Pro 10HX230 is pretty good. I've had 125dB sine tones from 100Hz upwards out of mine, although distortion was starting to rise.
You could spend less money by re-using one of your existing 18"s in a box that's tuned higher.
Chris
So I could not fing any "decent looking" 15" sub at Thomann.
What you think about 1 x Lambda Labs MF-15 powered by 2 channels of T604, in bridge mode?
1 x high end 15" instead of my DIY 2 x 18" (which are series wired for 16Ohms total, on bridged XTI6002)
Sensitivity of 1 x MF 15 is "only" 98 dB, but it can survive quite some amp power.
What you think about 1 x Lambda Labs MF-15 powered by 2 channels of T604, in bridge mode?
1 x high end 15" instead of my DIY 2 x 18" (which are series wired for 16Ohms total, on bridged XTI6002)
Sensitivity of 1 x MF 15 is "only" 98 dB, but it can survive quite some amp power.
I think you might be surprised.
I don't know what your 15" 3-ways can do, but I can say that the 10" coaxial was putting out 125dB@1m sine tones. Distortion was rising, particularly in the treble where some compression was showing up in the 10-20kHz range. I had to do short sweeps to ensure nothing burnt out - power levels were around double the rated power handling, and being delivered as sine tones. No rest for the wicked.
The 10HX230 is a good driver, and I'd expect it to keep up with older model 15"s reasonably well.
My point is simply that if you're using 15" subs, the 15" 3-way top will have a very easy time - the subs will be the limiting factor by far.
In order to balance the system a little more, you could use smaller main speakers and run them harder. A 10" top over a 15" sub is a decent balance.
Looks to me like it'll be an expensive sub. Why not DIY?
Chris
The 10 inch coax is available for Eur 225if I buy 2. Add the wood and I d have 2 speakers for say... 600EUR. I used to say what sounds too good to be true - is most likely a pipe dream. Anyway - at that cost I can build that speakers just 4 fun. So the 125dB was unweighted I guess? At what drive voltage?
About the Lambda 15 inch hybrid I think it won t be too expensive if it enables me to go with ONE sub.
About the Lambda 15 inch hybrid I think it won t be too expensive if it enables me to go with ONE sub.
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