Hi,
I know alot of you wil ask why i would use such a amp in a home system but they are impressive value for the money, the A500was atleast. They had some flaws, as the pots who will be changed if I find 2 A500, as my plan is to bridge them and then use them to drive my elsinores, and in so creating a huuuge dynamic headroom.
My monthly income arent fat, about 350 USD as im unable to work because of a totally twice operated shouldee thats jumps out of place every single day, now waiting for surgery no 3.
So, for me this is a very good option regarding price as i have a A500 seller selling one to me for 100USD never unpacked. BUT, he asks me why i would buy the 500 when the 800 is so much more better.. It his opinion
and i need others as if the 80 extra USD för 800 will be worth it, then Ill buy the 800.
The differrence obvious to me, is the power and that A800 is class D. I unederstand D class can sound perfect nowadays but class D for 180 USD delivered, makes me a bit wondering how they can make it better than a AB for same sale price when everything else class D cost ATLEAST twice the price of A800.
If i go A500 i could beef up the PSU with some of my 48pcs 33,000usd 35x117mm Chemi Con caps when changing/bypassing/removing the pots as long as the voltage is below 50V as thats whats they rated for, ut considering power i would guess it is a higher than 50v PSU capacitor needed.
So, people please help me make a good choice here.
Finding a second A500 is no problem they are quite popular in sweden, and thereis always ebay,com/uk/de to check where i looked at a pair last week.
Anyoen whos listened to both as full register amps? Whats your opinion? Anyone else having experience either amp PLEASE jump in and help me!
Best regards and wishes from from Sweden!//Mathias
I know alot of you wil ask why i would use such a amp in a home system but they are impressive value for the money, the A500was atleast. They had some flaws, as the pots who will be changed if I find 2 A500, as my plan is to bridge them and then use them to drive my elsinores, and in so creating a huuuge dynamic headroom.
My monthly income arent fat, about 350 USD as im unable to work because of a totally twice operated shouldee thats jumps out of place every single day, now waiting for surgery no 3.
So, for me this is a very good option regarding price as i have a A500 seller selling one to me for 100USD never unpacked. BUT, he asks me why i would buy the 500 when the 800 is so much more better.. It his opinion
and i need others as if the 80 extra USD för 800 will be worth it, then Ill buy the 800.
The differrence obvious to me, is the power and that A800 is class D. I unederstand D class can sound perfect nowadays but class D for 180 USD delivered, makes me a bit wondering how they can make it better than a AB for same sale price when everything else class D cost ATLEAST twice the price of A800.
If i go A500 i could beef up the PSU with some of my 48pcs 33,000usd 35x117mm Chemi Con caps when changing/bypassing/removing the pots as long as the voltage is below 50V as thats whats they rated for, ut considering power i would guess it is a higher than 50v PSU capacitor needed.
So, people please help me make a good choice here.
Finding a second A500 is no problem they are quite popular in sweden, and thereis always ebay,com/uk/de to check where i looked at a pair last week.
Anyoen whos listened to both as full register amps? Whats your opinion? Anyone else having experience either amp PLEASE jump in and help me!
Best regards and wishes from from Sweden!//Mathias
Not nice that you have to get surgery.
I would recommend to keep the amplifiers stock. Price / performance goes down when doing mods, otherwise the manufacturer would already have included them.
If you plan on keeping these amps for a long time (20+ years) or abuse them, the A500 will be easier to repair.
If anyone has got pictures of the A800 internals, I am interested. Especially at the heat sinking.
I would recommend to keep the amplifiers stock. Price / performance goes down when doing mods, otherwise the manufacturer would already have included them.
If you plan on keeping these amps for a long time (20+ years) or abuse them, the A500 will be easier to repair.
If anyone has got pictures of the A800 internals, I am interested.
Especially at the heat sinking.
Well, the obvious first:
The A 500 got 2x 125W / 8 Ohm and 175W / 4 Ohm (RMS).
The A 800 got 2x 220W / 8 Ohm and 400W / 4 Ohm (RMS).
At 8 Ohm that's just 1,6 dB more power/dynamic headroom.
At 4 Ohm that's 3,3 dB more power/dynamic headroom.
If you use lower impedance speakers, that might change something, at 8 Ohm it's barely noticable. Do you want to use the amp at home or for PA?
The downside is, you've got a Class D amplifier with the A 800. That means, the output inductance reacts with the impedance of the speaker, and that can be something you might avoid but that depends on how which speaker impedance the amp is optimized for.
>> HERE << ..someone.. explained how a class D amp works on different impedances. I don't know for which impedance the A 800 was optimized, it might be mostly flat on 8 Ohm, maybe on 4 Ohm, I don't know but if you want to experiment with different speakers you'd probably rather prefer the tad less dynamic for a linear reproduction.
For home use I personally would prefer the A500.
The A 500 got 2x 125W / 8 Ohm and 175W / 4 Ohm (RMS).
The A 800 got 2x 220W / 8 Ohm and 400W / 4 Ohm (RMS).
At 8 Ohm that's just 1,6 dB more power/dynamic headroom.
At 4 Ohm that's 3,3 dB more power/dynamic headroom.
If you use lower impedance speakers, that might change something, at 8 Ohm it's barely noticable. Do you want to use the amp at home or for PA?
The downside is, you've got a Class D amplifier with the A 800. That means, the output inductance reacts with the impedance of the speaker, and that can be something you might avoid but that depends on how which speaker impedance the amp is optimized for.
>> HERE << ..someone.. explained how a class D amp works on different impedances. I don't know for which impedance the A 800 was optimized, it might be mostly flat on 8 Ohm, maybe on 4 Ohm, I don't know but if you want to experiment with different speakers you'd probably rather prefer the tad less dynamic for a linear reproduction.
For home use I personally would prefer the A500.
Theseare amps made for studios so they are fanless and also quite sturdy for the money. I am thinking of going A500 but I still wonder why he would say a A800 is so much better.
The A500 has a cheap point creating unwanted distortion. The volume knob or rather the potentiometer, i guess, is the culprit. Unless they are put at max, distortion rises quite measurable. Like 10xtimes if i remembeer cirrectly. They really dont hold up to the spec sheet but A500 are tested at 128w both channels driven at 20-20k hz 8ohm and if i rememeber correctly with the pots at max at a respectable somewhere 0.0130% I think.
This was all done at a Swedish forum where they are plenty used and the forum has a seriously higher degree of knowledge than here and sadly enough it is only in swedish as there isnt any question that hasnt gone thru multiple 50post/page pages like threads about slot ports and how to optimize for best perofromace like golf ball dimples, curved top/bottom/sides and port radius as an example and the spirit of modification is high there and so it is for me.
I do not need the volume/gain knobs as i use my Cambridge DAC Magic Plus as pre amp so i might just cut them off as some has done, others have bypassed that whole input stage with new connectors on the back and so in.
But, this isnt why i started the question, are there any soundwise and other differences when used at home as a amp with 8ohm 93db near phase linear speakers? Elsinores are the speakers called for you who might have misssed them as this was moved to PA sub forum.
Have anyone on here even listened to anyone of the A500/800 and what waw your impression in such case?
The A500 has a cheap point creating unwanted distortion. The volume knob or rather the potentiometer, i guess, is the culprit. Unless they are put at max, distortion rises quite measurable. Like 10xtimes if i remembeer cirrectly. They really dont hold up to the spec sheet but A500 are tested at 128w both channels driven at 20-20k hz 8ohm and if i rememeber correctly with the pots at max at a respectable somewhere 0.0130% I think.
This was all done at a Swedish forum where they are plenty used and the forum has a seriously higher degree of knowledge than here and sadly enough it is only in swedish as there isnt any question that hasnt gone thru multiple 50post/page pages like threads about slot ports and how to optimize for best perofromace like golf ball dimples, curved top/bottom/sides and port radius as an example and the spirit of modification is high there and so it is for me.
I do not need the volume/gain knobs as i use my Cambridge DAC Magic Plus as pre amp so i might just cut them off as some has done, others have bypassed that whole input stage with new connectors on the back and so in.
But, this isnt why i started the question, are there any soundwise and other differences when used at home as a amp with 8ohm 93db near phase linear speakers? Elsinores are the speakers called for you who might have misssed them as this was moved to PA sub forum.
Have anyone on here even listened to anyone of the A500/800 and what waw your impression in such case?
After spending some thoughts on it, I would recommend the A500 for hi-fi use unless you need the extra power. Class B has proven itself and is fully developed. Older class D amplifiers had more distortion and noise - though this might already have been solved in the A800. I don't know because Behringer does not specify either on the A800. To give you an idea, THD+N on the NU3000DSP is 0.045% (= -67 dB) at 1 kHz / 1 W into 8 Ohms and primarily consists of the 3rd harmonic (0.040%) and it is 0.12% at 100 W. I would expect it to be lower on the A800, as it is designed for a different application. https://downloads.music-group.com/s...s4Music_Review_NU3000DSP_2011-08-10_Rev.0.pdf Surprisingly, the A500 does not appear to outperform these figures at 1 W, see the graph 'Power Versus Distorion @ 4 Ohm Both Channels Driven' Review and Measurements of Behringer A500 Amplifier | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Additionally, class B amplifiers typically are designed to run lukewarm and therefore last forever, while the Behringer Inuke series (class D, might be similar to the A800) are designed to run hot, which could limit their life expectancy because of thermal cycles.
Additionally, class B amplifiers typically are designed to run lukewarm and therefore last forever, while the Behringer Inuke series (class D, might be similar to the A800) are designed to run hot, which could limit their life expectancy because of thermal cycles.
According to Behringer it should not any more:
Behringer A800 data sheet said:
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Yes, it should. However, they are seemingly not. A friend bought one and said they sound different on very low volume than on medium power. He sent it back after just 2 days. On Thomann someone speaks about 'loud treble', which indicates it actually does interact with the impedance.
The datasheet speaks of -3dB at 10Hz-30kHz. I got no information or measurement if or how much the relevant frequencies are affected, but it seems it might be the case. The A500 performed better in this test with -0,5dB respective -1,5dB regarding that and -0,1dB and -0,3dB at 20Hz/20kHz. The channel difference of 0,2dB can be neglected I think, that's probably/likely the potentiometer.
Anyway, I'd recommend the A500 for home use. These class AB amps run practically forever and are easy to repair, you can get the parts anywhere. The class D amps ICs are sometimes rather hard to come by after 10 or more years, they often got a quite short production lifetime.
If income is low, you could buy some old - Maybe a defective class ab.Then put in ampboards from Ti instead of the original ones. I had a Denon Poa2200 withh smoke coming out from the right channel transistors. Now both sides have been swapped with tiny irs2092 modules giving me the same power as before. They cost me 50 dollars from aliexpress. Poa2200 has +-70 volt - Not typical for ampboards but I found one that works. I dont know what voltage the newer ampchips from texas instruments prefer
Hello everyone,
I just stumbled upon this website because I own two Behringer A500s, where one of them has a broken channel. I recently fired up the good one with both working channels, and heard harsh vocals and distorted piano notes. Increasing the potentiometer gains to maximum removed the distortion, so thank you very much for the tip!
So far, most of my Behringer gear broke (i.e., a DCX2496, DEQ2496, and the A500 with the bad channel), so I just assumed that even my good A500 was broken.
Behringer A800
Behringer A800 | Page 2 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
14 pictures.
[English & French] <<REVIEW Behringer A800 Class : Photos uniques !>> - 30100188 - sur le forum <<Amplificateurs de puissance>> - 1358 - du site Homecinema-fr.com
Optimized and resized
and more...
Behringer A800 | Page 2 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
14 pictures.
[English & French] <<REVIEW Behringer A800 Class : Photos uniques !>> - 30100188 - sur le forum <<Amplificateurs de puissance>> - 1358 - du site Homecinema-fr.com
Optimized and resized
and more...
Hi ! this sounds strange ... i wonder if anyone has given a look at the schematic and at how these pots are wired.
Maybe a simple mod could solve the problem.
Pots should not impact distortion so much ... they are just variable resistors in the end. Strange.
Hi regarding the pot induced distortion issue i have found the schematic of the a500 i am attaching ... the way the input volume pots are wired looks weird to me. I am attaching the particular
I would cut R66
Any comments ? is it instead perfectly fine ?
This point is very interesting to me as i have one a500 also myself
Thanks a lot to all
Attachments
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If the pot is the culprit in increasing the distortion, removing R66 would tend to make the problem worse. The only reason distortion would increase depending on the pot setting is if for some reason the 4580 op amp only wants to be driven from a LOW impedance source. Perhaps they realized this in testing and added the resistor to help mitigate the “problem”. In all the “professional” versions the input op amp to the power amp section is driven by another op amp.
Hi thanks a lot for the very kind and valuable advice. Wrong design then ? one thing is sure ... at Behringer they must love this OA ... they put it everywhere (I have seen inside other units using it ... a dac and an Headphone amp and also a mixer)
Maybe we discover that a simple 5532 could be a better option ? or a 2604 ? i have to check if it is smd ... i wonder if swapping for an equivalent could mitigate the distortion issue. Strange mistake indeed ...
You need an op amp with high drive capability there. That’s why 5532s have traditionally been used. It may behave better here. 2604 won’t cut the mustard, don’t even try it. Nowhere near the drive capability. If it were driving a small signal stage, it would be better.
Driving power transistors directly with the op amp is a very difficult load for it. In most normal applications, a higher source resistance has little impact on distortion, only on noise. With circuits like this anything can happen. QSC universally used the 5532 for a reason, even in modern implementations.
Driving power transistors directly with the op amp is a very difficult load for it. In most normal applications, a higher source resistance has little impact on distortion, only on noise. With circuits like this anything can happen. QSC universally used the 5532 for a reason, even in modern implementations.
Hi thanks a lot for the very kind and valuable advice. I have to check if the opamp is replaceable with a 5532. As i said above at Behringer they must have fallen in love with the 4580 opamp ... they used it very often. Even where, i now understand, better alternatives exist.
I hope it is not smd ...
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